13:57:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #matf
13:57:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-matf-irc
13:57:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:57:05 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ
13:57:07 <JJ> Zakim, this is MATF 7 January 2026
13:57:08 <Zakim> got it, JJ
13:57:18 <JJ> Meeting: MATF 7 January 2026
13:57:20 <JJ> chair+
13:57:32 <JJ> agenda+ 2025 reflection
13:57:37 <JJ> agenda+ 2026 plans
13:57:42 <JJ> agenda+ User Agent definition
13:58:19 <RobW> RobW has joined #matf
13:59:53 <JJ> regrets+ TimGravemaker
14:00:07 <shoobe01> present+
14:00:09 <RobW> present+
14:01:20 <tayef> tayef has joined #matf
14:02:06 <Tanya> Tanya has joined #matf
14:02:29 <Tanya> present+
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14:03:30 <tayef> present+
14:03:42 <pauljadam> present+
14:03:51 <quintinb> quintinb has joined #MATF
14:03:55 <quintinb> present+
14:04:41 <Joe_Humbert> Joe_Humbert has joined #matf
14:04:53 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:04:53 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- 2025 reflection -- taken up [from JJ]
14:04:56 <JJ> scribe: quintinb
14:04:56 <quintinb> scribe: quintinb
14:05:14 <rachaely> rachaely has joined #matf
14:05:34 <rachaely> present+
14:06:01 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf
14:06:05 <JJ> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/147/views/1
14:11:18 <quintinb> @JJ covering the completed tickets in the project board and looking back on what we've been working on.
14:11:24 <quintinb> Any feedback?
14:11:40 <quintinb> Any insights?
14:11:45 <Tanya> q+
14:11:55 <JJ> ack Tanya
14:14:08 <quintinb> Tanya: Think about how to improve the process. The group is very knowledgable - it's difficult to provide a perferct draft, we can benefit from making the voting process faster. Sometimes theres only a few people in the call - perhaps we need to just accept the people in the group when the decision needs to be made. Maybe we can think of a more
14:14:08 <quintinb> effective voting process?
14:15:07 <RobW> RobW has joined #matf
14:15:29 <quintinb> q+ just a comment on scribing: I love scribing, don't mind doing it, but please always double check the scribe to make sure you've been represented properly!
14:15:55 <JJ> q+ quintinb
14:15:58 <JJ> ack quintinb
14:16:36 <JJ> Replacing words in minutes: s/XXX/YYY where XXX is the original words and YYY are the words to replace them with
14:18:03 <Joe_Humbert> q+
14:18:10 <JJ> ack Joe_Humbert
14:19:42 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert: Mobile is moving quickly, we need more people voluteering for tasks - can we figure out a way to help run the meetings. Lots of lengthy comments are harder to work with than PR's.
14:19:49 <rachaely> q+
14:20:17 <RobW> RobW has joined #matf
14:21:00 <JJ> ack rachaely
14:21:18 <quintinb> rachaely: Can we get a reminder on how we can assign ourselves to tasks?
14:22:23 <quintinb> q+ to "Are we supposed to take out of TODO or Scope for second draft?"
14:22:45 <quintinb> q- to thanks JJ
14:23:04 <Tanya> q+
14:23:07 <quintinb> Look in "Scope for 2nd draft"
14:24:01 <JJ> ack Tanya
14:25:12 <quintinb> Tanya: We are not using the columns either. If you assigned yourself to a task, please make sure it's in progress so every can see (and JJ can add to agenda)
14:26:21 <Joe_Humbert> q+
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14:26:40 <rachaely> q+ milestones might be good for this
14:26:42 <JJ> ACTION: Add labels to the issues in the second draft column
14:26:52 <JJ> ack rachaely
14:27:13 <quintinb> rachaely: Use the milestone feature in GitHub? And have a target due date?
14:27:15 <JJ> s/labels/milestone
14:27:35 <quintinb> oooh sed it!
14:28:19 <quintinb> action?
14:28:35 <quintinb> sorry was trying to see if that was a command
14:29:14 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert we may have a problem with permissions in github - we need to look into making sure folks have what they need
14:31:22 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:31:22 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JJ
14:31:26 <JJ> q?
14:31:30 <JJ> ack Joe
14:31:34 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:31:34 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- 2026 plans -- taken up [from JJ]
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14:34:57 <quintinb> We can always reach out to thyeir head of a11y
14:35:07 <quintinb> GitHub is taking a11y very very seriously
14:36:15 <quintinb> Ed Summers (head of A11y, GitHub) is super cool and friendly - I'm sure he'd love to get feedback
14:36:16 <JJ> ACTION: Expand IRC cheatsheet / guidance
14:36:32 <JJ> ACTION: Clarify collaboration process / expectations
14:37:53 <JJ> If you encounter any accessibility barriers with the tools the MATF is using: let me know
14:38:09 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:38:09 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- User Agent definition -- taken up [from JJ]
14:38:21 <JJ> github.com/w3c/matf/issues/63
14:43:44 <JJ> https://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=https://www.w3.org/TR/2025/NOTE-wcag2ict-22-20251211/&doc2=https://www.w3.org/TR/2025/NOTE-wcag2ict-22-20250821/#user-agent
14:45:46 <quintinb> Tanya: If we look at the WCAG2ICT changes and the new draft - they state that the user entities are applicable for non-web software - in my opion we need to align to WCAG2ICT - there is no reason to have our own separate guidance to WCAG2ICT regarding user agent. I'm not sure if that is the reality or will comply, but I think we should follow
14:45:46 <quintinb> WCAG2ICT. WCAG2ICT does put a lot of effort into saying what User Agent is - we should align with them. We can give more in depth information
14:47:08 <shoobe01> Wondering how much the UA discussion does or should overlap with things like #270, where we're defining the Underlying Layer in the context of who is responsible for which level of compliance anyway.
14:48:39 <RobW> Its not clear to me what 'not on the web' means
14:50:23 <JJ> Web page hosted by the app (localhost) = on or off web?
14:51:07 <Tanya> did someone go though this dcoument: https://www.w3.org/TR/2025/DNOTE-web-user-agents-20251127/
14:51:16 <quintinb> Electron is an example, right?
14:51:19 <shoobe01> Even the concept of web /page/ is fraught to me. Often apps use tiny bits of webview for pulling specific content or performing functions/formatting, but inside an otherwise-native app page.
14:51:29 <pauljadam> If you download an app from the App Store then I think an end user would call that "on the web"
14:51:31 <quintinb> oof where does react native fit in?
14:51:48 <pauljadam> I assume end users think websites and apps are both on the web
14:53:47 <shoobe01> RN: I have found these frameworks and approaches weird enough call them in my writing Webview Apps as they are a weird middle between native app and website.
14:54:39 <pauljadam> If I put content into an iOS SwiftUI app like I make some pages in a navigation view then I'd consider that framework Apple uses to render the app as the User Agent. Sort of like how a web browser is the user agent that renders pages on a website.
14:55:08 <quintinb> Agree pauljadam - everything is Nintendo to some people
14:55:52 <shoobe01> As a starting point, I do not hate "user agent or other platform software" (though it's a bit long)
14:55:56 <rachaely> i think of a WebView as a user agent because it renders HTML content similar to a browser. so in a hybrid app, the native content is rendered by platform software, but the HTML is rendered by a user agent
14:56:03 <Tanya> q+
14:56:11 <RobW> For most users web == internet. But I think for the purpose of definitions we should use the correct definitions of web & internet.
14:56:44 <quintinb> Agree RobW - this is a technical doc, for technical people
14:56:58 <pauljadam> If WCAG was called ICAG (Internet Content Accessibility Guidelines) it would still work the same :)
14:57:08 <JJ> ack Tanya
14:57:34 <JJ> Zakim, close the queue
14:57:34 <Zakim> ok, JJ, the speaker queue is closed
14:58:00 <JJ> https://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/
14:59:08 <pauljadam> It says "UAAG is primarily for developers of Web browsers, browser extensions, media players, readers and other applications that render web content" so UAAG should still apply to "applications that render content".
14:59:20 <quintinb> Tanya: My understanding of user agent has it's own a11y guideline - they have their own guidelines. By adding a separate definition, we talk about the same thing on a conceptual level, we talk about the same thing. By adding "platform software" you're leaving the user agent "scope"
15:00:53 <JJ> rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-matf-minutes.html JJ
15:23:09 <JJ> rrsagent, bye
15:23:09 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-matf-actions.rdf :
15:23:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Add labels to the issues in the second draft column [1]
15:23:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-matf-irc#T14-26-42
15:23:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Expand IRC cheatsheet / guidance [2]
15:23:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-matf-irc#T14-36-16
15:23:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Clarify collaboration process / expectations [3]
15:23:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-matf-irc#T14-36-32
15:23:13 <JJ> zakim, bye
15:23:13 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been shoobe, RobW, Tanya, tayef, pauljadam, quintinb, rachaely
15:23:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #matf