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13:22:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-apa-irc
13:22:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:22:44 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
13:23:07 <janina> agenda?
13:23:15 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:23:15 <janina> agenda+ TPAC 2025 (Continued)
13:23:15 <janina> agenda+ [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues)
13:23:15 <janina> agenda+ [Issue tracking](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues)
13:23:15 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul)
13:23:17 <janina> agenda+ Other business
13:23:21 <janina> agenda+ Be done
13:23:26 <janina> agenda?
14:59:33 <janina> present+
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14:59:52 <gpellegrino> present+
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15:00:32 <Eric_hind> present+
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15:01:15 <Roy_Ruoxi> present+
15:01:46 <Crispy> Present+
15:01:48 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
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15:02:00 <Neha> present+
15:02:14 <Fredrik> present+
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15:02:26 <matatk> present+
15:02:35 <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
15:02:48 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:02:48 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
15:02:58 <Fredrik> janina: No surprises today.
15:03:12 <Fredrik> janina: We're consuming the leftovers from last year.
15:03:34 <Fredrik> janina: A CFC on COGA work.
15:03:43 <matatk> Head of the APA CfC thread: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2025Dec/0000.html
15:03:52 <Fredrik> janina: If you're in both concerned groups, please vote in both. Voting ends midnight Boston time tonight.
15:05:37 <tsaulter> tsaulter has joined #apa
15:05:37 <Fredrik> matatk: Now si a good time to think about shop windows: up-to-date links, webpages etc. It's a relatively simple process that involves makign a PR to the WAI website repo on Github. There are links to set you up for this at the bottom of most WAI websites.
15:05:46 <tsaulter> present+
15:06:14 <Fredrik> matatk: There is a requirement for one of teh staff with comms responsibilities (Tamsin perhaps) toreview it. So tidy up that shop window.
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15:07:01 <Fredrik> matatk: Also: there a re acouple of thigns I'm desperate to get finishedd which I wanted to do voer the holidays. Unfortunately, I was ill over the holidays - some of it at least - so I didn't get all of that done but it is a priority and news will be forthcoming.
15:07:04 <PaulG> present+
15:07:04 <JonCohn> present+
15:07:05 <gottfried> present+
15:07:38 <PaulG> (on another call for the first few minutes)
15:07:39 <Fredrik> janina: Those shop windows shouldn't be useful not only to the group but to people who casually run into WAI and go to one of our pages. They should be able to tell what it's about.
15:07:42 <matatk> Example "shop window" page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/groups/task-forces/adapt/ (For Adapt TF)
15:08:09 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:08:09 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC 2025 (Continued) -- taken up [from janina]
15:08:29 <Fredrik> matatk: We've been going throught hte meetings from TPAC.
15:08:45 <Fredrik> matatk: There were two meetings Janina was involved with that we haven't talked about yet.
15:08:54 <Crispy> Crispy has joined #apa
15:09:00 <Fredrik> janina: One of the meetings is due next week.
15:09:04 <Fredrik> matatk: THat's on spec review.
15:09:21 <Fredrik> janina: Okay, let's review thigns then.
15:10:18 <matatk> subtopic: Breakout: Stronger Together: Super-charging Agentic AI with Accessibility Destinations
15:10:22 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/365
15:10:34 <Fredrik> janina: This was a breakout session testing a hypothesis.
15:11:01 <Fredrik> janina: The hypothesis is emerging from one of our WGs. We're reuinsg, underused existing HTML markup for a very specific purpose.
15:11:09 <Fredrik> janina: Discofeable Destinations.
15:11:17 <Fredrik> janina: Do DDs help agentic AI approaches?
15:11:25 <Fredrik> janina: Is there a nexus there, a symbiosis?
15:11:41 <Fredrik> janina: The connclusion was "yes, we think so" and we're rather eager to pick this up and see that the conversation continues.
15:13:00 <Fredrik> janina: The Canadians have a new standard published at the end of 2025 with requirements for a11y in AI systems.
15:13:19 <Fredrik> janina: THis was led by Jutta Treveranus (of UToronto).
15:13:35 <Fredrik> janina: THe RQTF is working on a paper in this area.
15:13:40 <matatk> I think this is the Canadian standard Janina just mentioned: https://ourtake.bakerbotts.com/post/102lx09/canada-releases-accessibility-standard-for-artificial-intelligence
15:15:08 <matatk> subtopic: Breakout: Dynamic Accessibility Remediation: A report from the Accessibility at the Edge Community Group
15:15:11 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/367
15:15:23 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:15:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:15:31 <Fredrik> janina: There's been a CG llkooking at edge tech and its appropriate use in a11y.
15:15:56 <Fredrik> janina: When is it relevant to use source fixes and when post source be relevant?
15:16:06 <matatk> chair: Janina
15:16:08 <Fredrik> janina: The paper was published just before TPAC.
15:16:10 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:16:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:16:36 <Fredrik> janina: The next step is to go through and find all teh places where edge tech rather than source could do better adaptations for a user.
15:16:48 <matatk> meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
15:16:51 <Fredrik> janina: It's basically creating a  separate TOC for the published document.
15:17:58 <Fredrik> gottfried: Lilnk please?
15:18:30 <matatk> Here's the CG page: https://www.w3.org/community/a11yedge/
15:18:32 <Fredrik> gottfried: For the ICCHP I have a special thematic session on overlqay tools. It's called "Accessibility Overlays from a Scientific View". I am trying to do an objective and evience based statement.
15:18:40 <janina> https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/
15:18:51 <Fredrik> gottfried: The session has ben accepted but is not publsihed on the web page yet.
15:19:55 <Fredrik> matatk: That was all the TPAC stuff I think.
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15:20:05 <Fredrik> janina: For now.
15:20:23 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:20:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
15:20:44 <Fredrik> Roy_Ruoxi: Nothing new here.
15:20:47 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
15:20:47 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
15:20:48 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:20:48 <Zakim> 4. [Issue tracking](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues) [from janina]
15:21:02 <Fredrik> zakim, take up item 3
15:21:02 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
15:21:19 <matatk> subtopic: CSS Anchor Positioning Level 1
15:21:20 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/142
15:21:20 <matatk> Due: 2026-01-30
15:21:20 <Fredrik> matatk: A new one!
15:21:30 <PaulG> (back)
15:21:35 <Fredrik> matatk: It is due at the end of this month and may need careful attention.
15:21:45 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
15:21:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
15:23:57 <Fredrik> Eric_hind: I can do this.
15:26:39 <Fredrik> matatk: Lots of wordplay around the variable X.
15:27:48 <Fredrik> matatk: Knowing where the edirectino of travel is, we should comment.
15:28:07 <Fredrik> janina: Someone well established in CSS proposed the name of APA to me in 2013 or so. And it resonated with everyone.
15:28:44 <Fredrik> PaulG: Tkae out aria-details - it's not supported.
15:28:48 <Fredrik> matatk: I'll set up the thread.
15:28:56 <matatk> subtopic: RDF Reviews update
15:28:56 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/278
15:29:00 <Fredrik> matatk: So Eric, Paul and I will take on the CSS.
15:29:28 <matatk> subtopic: DVB Accessibility Implementation Guidelines
15:29:28 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/132
15:29:29 <Fredrik> FRedrik: It's a go.
15:29:43 <Fredrik> matatk: This is the one Janina mentioned earlier.
15:30:59 <Fredrik> matatk: My understanding is that this is a proposal for a kind of vocabulary of a11y features that media may have. It isn't normative in the sense that all media should have it, but it is a really good ideda for what features could be provided. Some of them, we noted, are comonplace in boradcasting but not on the Web and vice versa. Just having tha
15:30:59 <Fredrik> tconceptual common framework is a seed to start harmonizing things.
15:31:12 <Fredrik> matatk: We do need  to comment on this by some time in February.
15:31:58 <matatk> MAUR == Media Accessibility User Requirements - https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/
15:32:08 <Fredrik> janina: I hate the idea whta twe are redoing work we shouldn't have to because someone wasn't aware of guidancce we should have been aware of.
15:32:10 <matatk> (overall list of those AUR docs: https://www.w3.org/WAI/research/user-requirements/ )
15:32:26 <Fredrik> janina: The MAUR should be updated, really.
15:33:49 <Fredrik> matatk: The document is a PDF and I don't know how accessible it is.
15:34:54 <Fredrik> matatk: Janina and I will be involved with it anyway. Fredrik looks at a11y of the DPF first thing after the call.
15:35:16 <Fredrik> tsaulter: We do have  a thread about this.
15:36:01 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:36:01 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- [Issue tracking](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
15:36:09 <tsaulter> q+
15:36:20 <matatk> ack tsaulter
15:36:48 <Fredrik> tsaulter: Knowing the context of the MAUR which sort of supercedes the DVB guidelines, is it about comparing hte MAUR and DVB guidelines or jsut to look at the DVB guidelines on their own?
15:37:20 <Fredrik> matatk: Comparing would be super helpful. Give some horus to the AURs is a good idea generally.
15:37:53 <Fredrik> matatk: Janina, as one of the authors of the MAUR int he first place, is expecting to do a chunk of that comparing work anyway. We would of course not turn away any input whatsoever.
15:38:24 <matatk> subtopic: CSS 4 reading order vs text selection
15:38:24 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/282
15:38:36 <Fredrik> matatk: This is one where we might want to collaborate with ARIA.
15:38:54 <gpellegrino> q+
15:39:10 <Fredrik> matatk: They are curious as to how AT interacts with CSS text selection.
15:39:32 <Fredrik> matatk: Any and all AT vendors and related persons are most humbly encouraged to check this out.
15:39:58 <matatk> ack gpellegrino
15:40:59 <Fredrik> gpellegrino: I'm not sure if it is the same topic but we have strong use cases in digital publishing for being able to manage text selection, especially because it usally triggers highlighting or taking notes etc. Right now the support of AT that is around doesn't make this possible (meaning selecting text and giving hte event ot the browser so
15:40:59 <Fredrik> that different evente can be triggered, like highlighting etc.)
15:41:15 <Fredrik> matatk: That is an excellent point. I don't know how related it is, either. But I'mn certain there is some related aspect.
15:41:42 <Fredrik> matatk: Taliking with CSS on this particular issue, there will surely be some relevance there. Raising it with ARIA and asking them for their input is also more than relevant.
15:42:20 <Fredrik> matatk: It would be far better to say "Hey not sure if this is related but have you considered this?" than not saying anything at all.
15:42:28 <Fredrik> gpellegrino: Coutn me in then!
15:42:33 <Fredrik> matatk: Done.
15:42:40 <JonCohn> queue+
15:42:56 <matatk> ack JonCohn
15:43:02 <Fredrik> JonCohn: I'd like to be on the meta thread too.
15:43:12 <Fredrik> matatk: This is shaping up tbe really interesting.
15:43:47 <Fredrik> matatk: Jon, you will be added to the APA trackign issue where we can talk informally (but publicly) before we make an official statement.
15:44:48 <matatk> q?
15:44:51 <Fredrik> zakimm, open next item
15:45:09 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:45:09 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- CSS Update (Paul) -- taken up [from janina]
15:45:47 <Fredrik> PaulG: Much work but nothing CSSy.
15:45:53 <Fredrik> matatk: Holidays are very ijmportant.
15:46:07 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
15:46:07 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
15:46:08 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:46:08 <Zakim> 6. Other business [from janina]
15:46:53 <Fredrik> janina: WE are reconsidering our relationship with ARIA in W3C and working more closely with them as we do with the various things we do.
15:47:07 <Fredrik> janina: It's a bit more general in nature, though.
15:47:19 <Fredrik> matatk: It will enable us to bring on more expertise. We're working on communications and awareness.
15:47:56 <Fredrik> matatk: It's about makgin expertise available cross-group-ish. Awareness of what needs are on the table and so forth. Watch this space.
15:48:43 <Fredrik> janina: We're expecting some significant publishing work form our TFs. MM is now 1.0 but there were concerns as we finalised that publication and those weill be addressed, because it was never thought that MM 1.0 would be the last word anyway. THere will be a 1.1, perhaps even bu CSUN witha FPWD.
15:50:09 <Fredrik> janina: There are publicationws working their way thorugh RQTF abut, among other thigns, AI. And then ta very old one of ours. We published a paper back in 2008 on the accessibility of Turing tests (CAPTCHAs). There has been some interest out side fo APA as well as the present interest from within APA. Martin Thomson from Mozilla thought this was
15:50:09 <Fredrik> interesting. Our last TR version wqas 2019. It would be useful to update that.
15:50:29 <matatk> The document Janina is referring to: https://www.w3.org/TR/turingtest/
15:50:30 <Fredrik> janina: And there a re other TFs which may or may not get to a final product this year. We'll see.
15:50:44 <matatk> q?
15:51:45 <Fredrik> janina: The main thing that trips us up on what to write in the Turing test is basically what the state of the art is about aceptable accessible captchas. We didn't ahvethe expertise on hand in RQTF to move forward.
15:52:12 <Fredrik> PaulG: There may not b e apoint ot captchaing anymore since AI is solving them left and right.
15:53:23 <Fredrik> janina: There were some advances from ClludFlare that are looking at some testing mechanisms which we retalked about in 2019 but we don't know much about what is going on now.
15:55:09 <Fredrik> janina: If anyone knows more on this, please reach out. We may be updating,I think we will be updating.
15:55:13 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:55:13 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Other business -- taken up [from janina]
15:55:24 <Fredrik> janina: It's really a delight to be back!
15:55:30 <Fredrik> janina: Same time, same channels!
15:55:36 <Fredrik> zakim, end meeting
15:55:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, gpellegrino, Eric_hind, Roy_Ruoxi, Crispy, Neha, Fredrik, matatk, tsaulter, PaulG, JonCohn, gottfried
15:55:38 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:55:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/07-apa-minutes.html Zakim
15:55:46 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Fredrik; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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