14:57:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
14:57:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/01/05-lws-irc
14:57:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lws
14:57:35 <acoburn> acoburn has changed the topic to: Linked Web Storage Working Group Meeting - 5 January 2026 - https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260105T100000/
14:57:43 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
14:57:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:57:45 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
14:57:51 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
14:57:55 <acoburn> chair: acoburn
14:58:12 <acoburn> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260105T100000/#agenda
14:58:13 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:58:13 <agendabot> agenda+ Introduction & Announcements
14:58:13 <agendabot> agenda+ Open Pull Requests
14:58:13 <agendabot> agenda+ CRUD And Metadata handling
14:58:13 <agendabot> agenda+ Storage Description Resource
14:58:26 <acoburn> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/05-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:00:22 <ericP> ericP has joined #lws
15:00:33 <ericP> present+
15:01:00 <eBremer> eBremer has joined #lws
15:01:00 <ryey> ryey has joined #lws
15:01:15 <eBremer> present+
15:01:19 <ryey> present+
15:01:23 <gibsonf1> gibsonf1 has joined #lws
15:01:26 <acoburn> present+
15:01:35 <gibsonf1> present+
15:02:24 <lukedary> lukedary has joined #lws
15:03:35 <TallTed> present+
15:03:40 <lukedary> present+
15:06:01 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 1
15:06:01 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introduction & Announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:06:26 <ryey> scribe+
15:06:56 <ryey> lukedary: I work for RedHat; new to the Solid community
15:07:27 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 2
15:07:27 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Open Pull Requests -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:08:36 <ryey> acoburn: a number of open PRs. Some simple, some non-simple ones. I'll leave the editorial ones open, but they will be merged soon
15:09:15 <ryey> ... the next two (#49, #50) are related to authorization. they are not editorial. if there are concerns, we can discuss. I'll leave them open for a few days.
15:09:15 <ericP> scribe+
15:09:15 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/49 -> Pull Request 49 Consolidate privacy considerations (by acoburn)
15:09:16 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/50 -> Pull Request 50 Consolidate security considerations (by acoburn)
15:10:01 <ericP> acoburn: Ted, you mentioned that URI, as defined by IETF, is absolute, so "absolute URI" is redundent
15:10:16 <ericP> ... this also prevents relative URIs
15:10:32 <ryey> scribe-
15:10:37 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 3
15:10:37 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- CRUD And Metadata handling -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:10:50 <ericP> TallTed: let's keep this async [in git comments)
15:11:30 <ericP> acoburn: we had general agreement before the break and agreed to vote today
15:11:39 <jackson> jackson has joined #lws
15:11:43 <ericP> ... any reason to defer to later?
15:11:46 <ericP> [crickets]
15:11:52 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #lws
15:11:59 <TallTed> q+
15:12:03 <ericP> acoburn: any discussion before voting?
15:12:07 <acoburn> ack next
15:12:25 <gibsonf1> q+ ask about containers and patch
15:12:32 <gibsonf1> q+ to ask about containers and patch
15:13:15 <ericP> TallTed: github pushed updates to the PR comments in such a way we can't review [linewise]
15:13:25 <dmitriz> yeah, I wonder if the commits can be compressed, and PR can be re-opened
15:13:58 <ericP> eBremer: i initially broke this up into separate folder but it accumulated commits because the target document moved
15:14:10 <ericP> acoburn: rebase and force-push?
15:14:43 <ericP> eBremer: wilco
15:15:10 <acoburn> ack next
15:15:11 <Zakim> gibsonf, you wanted to ask about containers and patch
15:15:42 <ericP> gibsonf1: q's on the nature of storage: isn't the storage itself the root container?
15:15:46 <dmitriz> I think the difference is - the storage _has_ a root container, not is
15:16:07 <ericP> ... bigger issue: what if i want to write RDF data to the storage w/o putting it in a container?
15:16:34 <ericP> ... e.g. stuff about a wikidata id as a subject?
15:16:50 <ericP> ... closely related to PATCH
15:17:01 <AZ> AZ has joined #lws
15:17:07 <AZ> present+
15:17:09 <TallTed> q+
15:17:14 <ericP> ... PATCH is used to create events on a server but not in a container
15:17:23 <acoburn> ack next
15:18:00 <ericP> TallTed: RDF, by its nature, is multiple layers of abstract in itself.
15:18:13 <ericP> ... you can't put anything NOT into a container
15:18:31 <ericP> just because it's invisible to you doesn't mean it isn't there.
15:18:42 <dmitriz> q+
15:19:00 <ericP> á la writing to a [disk] volume w/o knowing there's a volume
15:19:17 <ericP> ... best to take them as freebies
15:19:25 <acoburn> ack next
15:19:44 <ericP> dmitriz: agree with the complexities that TallTed mentioned
15:20:35 <ericP> ... can we sidestep this by refering to containers w/o a trailing '/' and the root w a trailing '/'?
15:21:11 <ericP> acoburn: at Ghent, we discussed avoiding any semantics in the URI; placing everything in link headers
15:21:40 <gibsonf1> q+ to ask about containers and respond
15:22:20 <acoburn> ack next
15:22:21 <Zakim> gibsonf, you wanted to ask about containers and respond
15:22:35 <ericP> dmitriz: makes sense but my proposal holds; URI1 for storage w '/'...
15:23:07 <ericP> gibsonf1: not everything we have is a file-system-based container. we have predicates which create the hierarchy of containers
15:23:42 <ericP> ... i think the "file storage container" (w '/') and a "container" (w/o '/') works
15:24:57 <ericP> ... resolving this allows me to discriminate a subject URI from a request URI
15:26:00 <ericP> acoburn: suppose we have foo.storage and bar.storage. in foo, we have a resource that refers to bar.storage
15:26:19 <acoburn> s/refers to/describes/
15:26:36 <ericP> gibsonf1: yeah, maybe easiest to think of the mass of wikidata URIs that you might want to describe
15:26:55 <ericP> acoburn: i think we have to be careful about who is authoritative
15:27:05 <ericP> q+ to talk about Bio2RDF
15:27:20 <ericP> acoburn: i'm writing some stuff about Anchorage
15:27:48 <ericP> ... you update that saying that I live in NYC. who's authoritative?
15:28:02 <ericP> ... i argue this is not specific to LWS
15:28:22 <ericP> gibsonf1: i think the storage itself is a claim on who's authoritative
15:28:46 <ericP> ... if i want to make a req FROM MY STORAGE about some city...
15:29:41 <acoburn> ack next
15:29:42 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to talk about Bio2RDF
15:31:31 <TallTed> lots of owl:sameAs reasoning that's *right*, as opposed to many owl:sameAs statements in the wild
15:31:35 <ericP> @@Bio2RDFstory here
15:31:46 <ericP> gibsonf1: right, the graphs don't merge
15:31:54 <ericP> acoburn: we have this problem today in RDF
15:32:30 <ericP> ... i think you're getting at the issue of query
15:32:47 <TallTed> q+
15:32:53 <ericP> gibsonf1: you're talking about an RDF file that can have lots of stuff in it
15:33:59 <ericP> ... i'm talking about the case where i want to store/retrieve data that's got an external (natural) URI
15:34:27 <ericP> ... i don't want to fall back to a glorified RDF file system
15:34:30 <acoburn> ack next
15:35:35 <ericP> TallTed: it sounds like you're taking the guidance that's been written as a forbidance from doing what you've been doing
15:36:19 <acoburn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:36:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/05-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:36:49 <ericP> ... i explain RDF to folks using a primary key as a subject identifier and headings and cell values as the predicate and object
15:37:42 <ericP> ... it's useful to put the info in those tables into files
15:38:38 <ericP> ... experts can profit from abstraction layers, even if you know it down to the atoms
15:38:45 <gibsonf1> q+ to respond
15:39:04 <ericP> ... that's part of why we keep these folders around
15:40:51 <pchampin> present+
15:40:55 <pchampin> arriving now
15:41:02 <acoburn> ack next
15:41:03 <Zakim> gibsonf, you wanted to respond
15:41:26 <acoburn> q+
15:41:32 <ericP> gibsonf1: not saying the files, turtle and spreadsheets aren't great.
15:42:58 <ericP> ... just want to make it natural for folks who have subjects in their storage, that they can find their local info
15:43:02 <acoburn> ack next
15:43:27 <ericP> acoburn: i'd like to center this about the PR which has CRUD operations
15:44:00 <ericP> ... you're talking about query which i want to keep separate from CRUD operations
15:44:07 <TallTed> CRUD -> Read == Query :-)
15:44:58 <ericP> ... we have another group to talk about type indexes, and by extension, query
15:46:06 <ericP> gibsonf1: not query, it's about creating and referring to a URI in my storage
15:46:28 <ericP> acoburn: OK, but it is a significant departure from SoLID (so far)
15:46:36 <TallTed> PUT/POST resource_x ; GET resource_y ; PATCH resource_x ; DELETE resource_y
15:47:44 <gibsonf1> foo.storage&subject=uri
15:47:52 <TallTed> (canonical capitalization of Solid is now Solid. "SOcial LInked Data" has been discarded as confusing and limiting.)
15:48:22 <ericP> ericP: i propose that gibsonf1 write up an architure doc that describes how we can use a URI to refer both to wikidata's WWII and gibsonf1.solid WWII
15:48:55 <ericP> gibsonf1: thinking just gibsonf1.solid/?query=wikidata.org/WWII
15:49:21 <ericP> acoburn: careful, "simple" might not be universal...
15:50:38 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 4
15:50:38 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Storage Description Resource -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:50:46 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #lws
15:51:39 <ericP> acoburn: ATTENTION: we will vote on https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/37 next week
15:51:40 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/37 -> Pull Request 37 Initial CRUD with proposed metadata handling (by ebremer)
15:52:17 <ericP> acoburn: in our Ghent F2F, we discussed a specification of containers. i hope we have a PR this month
15:53:30 <ericP> ... if we have a volunteer (from Ghent or a new volunteer), please let us know
15:54:27 <ericP> TallTed: SoLID inherits from LDP
15:55:37 <ericP> acoburn: it's unclear whether you can add user triples to a container, what it looks like in [framed] JSON-LD
15:56:54 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:56:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/05-lws-minutes.html ericP
15:59:46 <acoburn> acoburn has left #lws
15:59:58 <ericP> s/@@Bio2RDFstory here/ericP: Bio2RDF provided a mechanism to supplemnt e.g. UniProt proteins. The prob was that the ID for your version of proteinX was local and therefor necessarily different from UniProt's proteinX so the none of the graphs touched on proteinX
16:00:02 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:00:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/05-lws-minutes.html ericP
16:31:43 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #lws
19:11:43 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #lws