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16:00:32 <cpn> Meeting: MEIG / CTA WAVE / SVTA Joint Meeting
16:02:09 <cpn> present+ Chris_Needham, Kazuyuki_Ashimura, Song_Xu, Alexandra_Blasgen, Jon_Piesing, Bill_Rose, Thomas_Stockhammer, Francois_Daoust, Javier_Arellano, Zachary_Cava
16:04:49 <cpn> present+ Greg_Freedman, Fritz_Heiden, Paul_Hearty, Louay_Bassbouss
16:05:49 <song> song has joined #me
16:06:19 <cpn> scribe+ cpn
16:06:26 <cpn> Topic: Introduction
16:06:33 <cpn> Chris: Welcome to CTA WAVE and SVTA members
16:06:36 <cpn> Topic: EME
16:06:36 <kaz> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2025Dec/0004.html
16:06:43 <song> Thomas sent through the liaision
16:07:08 <cpn> Thomas: We did a survey in CTA WAVE relating to EME
16:07:19 <cpn> ... I'll talk about how we got to where we are, then discuss
16:08:25 <cpn> ... On the test suite, WAVE is creating unit tests for the integration of browsers on media consumption devices
16:08:33 <cpn> ... CTA 503 Issue B, currently working on Issue C
16:08:39 <cpn> ... Next revision to include commercial DRM
16:09:13 <cpn> ... The test suite is available, it's a massive amount of excellent work that should be used by more service providers and device manufacturers for interoperability
16:09:45 <cpn> ... We use MSE and, to a lesser extent, EME. We haven't done many tests, mainly for ClearKey, but should also include commercial DRM
16:10:11 <Louay> Louay has joined #me
16:10:20 <Louay> present+ Louay_Bassbouss
16:11:04 <cpn> ... CMAF content is used doing unit test instructions in a browser. Content is annotated, and you make observations, either manually or automated by the observation framework
16:11:22 <cpn> ... Check whether the device is operating correctly, from the point of view of the application using the APIs
16:11:41 <cpn> ... The focus today is on media playback, EME only supported to some extent
16:12:07 <cpn> ... We wanted to look at EME in more detail, asking for input from the industry on what should be tested, and specifically where we observe problems
16:12:39 <cpn> q?
16:12:48 <cpn> ... Survey closed in May 2025. The results include freeform responses
16:13:16 <cpn> ... We know who responded, but not reached out to anyone. The results are anonymised. It's a good reflection of where the industry is
16:13:36 <cpn> ... 23 respondents said they use EME, so clear indication of usage
16:14:36 <cpn> ... Survey of which DRMs are used. Fairplay, Playready in 2 modes (CBC and CENC), and Widevine (2 modes)
16:14:59 <song> Q1 Do you use, have you used, or do you want to use Web APIs (EME, MSE) for playback of encrypted media?
16:14:59 <song> Q3 Which of the following DRM systems have you used (or do you hope to use) with EME?
16:14:59 <song> Q4 Have you encountered problems using EME
16:15:09 <cpn> ... Problems using EME, only a minority said they used it without problems
16:15:49 <song> Q5 Would you have any interest in a set of unit tests for the integration of a web browser with DRM systems) on media consumption devices?
16:15:51 <cpn> ... Interest in having unit tests, and collaborate on them?
16:16:27 <cpn> ... Some want them be run as part of a certification programme. But a large proportion showed interest in collaborating
16:16:56 <song> Q6 Would you have any interest in contributing to such a set of unit tests?
16:17:32 <cpn> ... Interest in contributing. I believe if we set something up, we'll get a critical mass
16:18:21 <cpn> ... Other responses, corner cases. livsim2 is a good option for extending tests
16:18:37 <cpn> ... In terms of the substance, what are the key problems with DRM that would require consistent testing?
16:18:45 <cpn> q?
16:19:20 <song> Q7 What are the key problems with DRMs in combination with EME on devices that would require consistent testing?
16:19:42 <cpn> ... List of topics for testing.
16:20:11 <cpn> ... Combinations of key systems with different codecs, etc
16:20:32 <cpn> ... Transitions between encrypted or unencypted content
16:20:46 <cpn> ... decenc is maybe something we wouldn't do right now
16:21:23 <cpn> ... Inconsistent APIs. Querying which keys are available. Testing against popular hardware
16:21:40 <cpn> ... Tests typically try to nail down the problem where inconsistencies happen
16:22:07 <cpn> ... We'd provide the means for testing in context, e.g., we work with HbbTV, or with ATSC
16:22:31 <cpn> ... We shared with results with other orgs, MPEG, 3GPP, DVB, and so on
16:23:37 <cpn> ... W3C responded on August 14, to mention Media WG rechartering, and new features being added to EME
16:24:05 <cpn> ... Includes an invitation to this meeting
16:24:57 <cpn> ... The test suite is developed on a voluntary basis. We can't develop tests without industry support. Could be through sponsoring, or individual contribution. A small donation, if accumulated, helps move forward
16:25:01 <cpn> ... We've done this before
16:25:22 <cpn> ... Support is essential to move it forwards. WAVE can only do so much, without individual and contribution support
16:25:27 <cpn> ... Discussion?
16:25:34 <cpn> q?
16:25:59 <song> open questions for all
16:26:36 <song> we've web platform test framework
16:27:22 <song> diff. commercial systems cover sort of
16:27:32 <kaz> i/open questions/scribenick: song/
16:27:41 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
16:27:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:27:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/16-me-minutes.html kaz
16:28:15 <cpn> Greg: We support all the 3 major DRM systems, so we run canaries daily, we don't have a test suite
16:28:21 <kaz> chair: Chris_Needham
16:28:33 <song> Greg Freedman: we support all the three major DRM systems, so it's kind of like We don't actually rely on running daily, running canaries daily. We don't have, like, a test suite.
16:28:41 <kaz> i|Greg:|scribenick: cpn|
16:29:03 <kaz> i|Freedman:|scribenick: song|
16:29:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:29:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/16-me-minutes.html kaz
16:29:47 <cpn> Thomas: This is more for devices in the horizontal market, so a key target is systems like HbbTV
16:29:50 <cpn> q?
16:30:08 <song> understand that large service and content providers. do a kind of their own testing and certification of devices, trying to engage with some of the larger ones, but obviously this is built more for the horizontal market, where maybe apps are not fully certified
16:30:16 <cpn> scribe+ song
16:31:38 <song> recognize the importance of what you're asking for.I support EME, but  don't have an answer to the community needs
16:31:44 <cpn> Thomas: Some of the feedback might indicate spec level problems.
16:32:48 <song> understand what tests should we execute
16:32:48 <song> share this with the community for two reasons.
16:32:48 <song> We wanted to get feedback, And we also wanted to get
16:32:48 <song> wanted to be transparent on what the responses are. We take the ownership to say we would be responsible for defining the tests
16:33:03 <song> defining the tests and basically creating the material to do
16:33:51 <song> what we don't have in this meeting are the representatives from the major
16:34:09 <song> would be able to give a bit of perspective
16:34:35 <cpn> Thomas: Primarily we want funding, CTA WAVE is sponsoring it, consumer technology is in their interest
16:34:43 <song> we rearranged the meeting to accommodate was unavailable
16:34:53 <cpn> ... We also are interested in experts to define tests and identify the priorities
16:35:02 <song> financial support or, like, development efforts
16:35:44 <song> we would probably stop bothering you, and we would just go ahead and do all of this. If it's just half a million, then maybe we also would ask for
16:35:53 <song> do you have any resources that, uh, you want to support?
16:36:12 <song> a CTA wave sponsoring this, and TA has already spent money, and there's a commitment by CTA moving forward and supporting this, because consumer electronics and consumer technology is relevant for them,
16:36:24 <song> were interested in in experts, in Defining the tests and identifying the priorities,
16:37:49 <song> I don't want to read into that an indication of a lack of interest
16:38:03 <song> interested to hear the feedback
16:38:19 <song> how we bring this back to sort of continue the conversation
16:38:35 <song> an engineer who's working on the implementation
16:38:39 <cpn> q?
16:38:54 <song> probably not the right person to discuss kind of contributing funding.
16:39:42 <song> continue the development of the web platform test suite.
16:40:00 <song> they have their own... approach to doing, sort of, device-level testing.
16:41:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:41:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/16-me-minutes.html kaz
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