IRC log of ag on 2025-12-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/16-ag-irc
15:21:35 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:21:36 [Zakim]
Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
15:21:48 [Chuck]
meeting: AGWG-2025-12-16
15:22:11 [Chuck]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:22:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/16-ag-minutes.html Chuck
15:23:29 [Chuck]
agenda+ WCAG 2.x Issues https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0064.html
15:23:38 [Chuck]
agenda+ Subgroup Preparation
15:23:43 [Chuck]
agenda?
15:23:48 [Chuck]
zakim, clear agenda
15:23:48 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
15:24:02 [Chuck]
agenda+ WCAG 2.x Issues https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0064.html
15:24:11 [Chuck]
agenda+ Subgroup Preparation
15:25:22 [Chuck]
regrets: Mary Jo Mueller, Jeroen Hulscher, Rain Michaels
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+present
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present+
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16:02:00 [alastairc]
present+
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16:02:18 [stevekerr]
present+
16:02:24 [Francis_Storr]
present+
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16:02:26 [Jennie_Delisi]
present+
16:02:28 [filippo-zorzi]
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16:02:31 [tayef]
present+
16:02:34 [shadi]
present+
16:02:54 [Adam_Page]
present+
16:02:55 [filippo-zorzi]
present+
16:03:00 [jkatherman]
present+
16:03:02 [hdv]
present+
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16:03:24 [kirkwood]
present+
16:03:34 [kevin]
present+
16:03:41 [Chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
16:03:41 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose eloisa
16:03:59 [Chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
16:03:59 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Adam_Page
16:04:07 [tiffanyburtin]
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16:04:10 [Chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
16:04:10 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose scott
16:04:15 [tiffanyburtin]
present+
16:04:17 [AWK]
present+
16:04:28 [alastairc]
chair:Chuck
16:04:31 [Chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
16:04:31 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose stevef
16:04:36 [Illai]
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16:04:46 [Chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
16:04:46 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose graham
16:04:46 [Illai]
present+
16:04:47 [Jennie_Delisi]
* This is the group's way of showing wanting to keep Chuck around - if nobody scribes....he has to stay?
16:05:08 [Chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:08 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jen_G
16:05:31 [Chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:31 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Detlev
16:05:44 [mbgower]
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16:05:51 [mbgower]
present+
16:06:00 [Priti]
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16:06:30 [Detlev]
scribe: Detlev
16:07:05 [Bryan_Trogdon]
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16:07:06 [Charu]
present+
16:07:08 [BrianE]
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16:07:08 [Makoto_U]
present+
16:07:09 [Detlev]
Documentation own scriboing will be posted
16:07:15 [Bryan_Trogdon]
present+
16:07:15 [Laura_Carlson]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribing_Commands_and_Related_Info
16:07:19 [BrianE]
present+
16:07:23 [Detlev]
Chuck: Any introductions?
16:07:43 [Priti]
present+
16:07:45 [Laura_Carlson]
present+ Laura_Carlson
16:08:14 [alastairc]
Noting this is our second Makoto (Murata) we have another one called Makoto Ueki.
16:08:14 [Detlev]
Murata is first time at the meeting - welcome!
16:08:42 [Detlev]
Chuck: Announcements: Last meeting today in 2025
16:08:44 [julierawe]
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present+
16:08:50 [Detlev]
...thanks to all
16:09:20 [Detlev]
Rachael: There will be a CfC over the COGA Issues pages
16:09:34 [hdv]
q+
16:09:41 [Chuck]
ack ala
16:09:44 [Chuck]
ack hdv
16:09:48 [alastairc]
q+
16:10:02 [Chuck]
ack ala
16:10:08 [Detlev]
Hidde: CfC this week fro draft not publication of WCAG EM
16:10:16 [Detlev]
draft note publication
16:10:36 [Chuck]
q?
16:10:43 [Chuck]
zakim, take up item 1
16:10:43 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- WCAG 2.x Issues https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0064.html -- taken up [from Chuck]
16:10:45 [SydneyColeman]
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16:11:04 [Detlev]
Chuck: WCAG 2.X issues
16:11:05 [hdv]
s/CfC this week fro draft not publication of WCAG EM/wanted to double check, we'll also start the CFC for publication of WCAG-EM 2.0 as a draft note this week/
16:11:13 [ljoakley8]
present+
16:11:18 [Glenda]
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16:11:31 [Detlev]
mbgower: Not enough issues right now, probably next Friday
16:11:52 [Poornima]
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16:12:00 [Detlev]
...new items will be introduced first meeting 2026, then there will be ample time to review
16:12:02 [Chuck]
q?
16:12:47 [Detlev]
...meetings are on Friday 11:00 each Friday EST - next on January 9th
16:13:15 [Detlev]
...still looking to co-facilitator fot WCAG 2.X issues task force
16:13:17 [kenneth]
https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/wcag2x-backlog/calendar/ (will be extending the recurrence into 2026 soon)
16:13:48 [Detlev]
Chuck: any questions about TF?
16:13:59 [Chuck]
zakim, take up item 2
16:13:59 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Subgroup Preparation -- taken up [from Chuck]
16:14:13 [Glenda]
present+
16:14:30 [Poornima]
present+
16:14:45 [Detlev]
Chuck: soft reset to reset work done by TFs - next round is planned via survey to register interest to participate
16:15:14 [alastairc]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXGNNBReQgjHSDNJ02hA9sbb5R17mpN7YnDyC2GDzCI/edit?gid=0#gid=0
16:15:23 [Detlev]
...also updated handbook
16:15:45 [Detlev]
Alastair: Going to subgroups
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16:16:12 [ljoakley8]
i missed the survey, how can I get added to a group?
16:16:13 [Detlev]
alastairc: people were allocated to groups, balanced out a bit
16:16:45 [Detlev]
alastairc: we can add names here (for those who missed survey)
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16:16:55 [Detlev]
...specified time slots for groups
16:17:13 [Detlev]
image subgroup pacific-friendly time
16:17:37 [tiffanyburtin]
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16:18:07 [Detlev]
...meeting times for subgroups are available via the link above
16:18:08 [Atya]
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16:18:14 [ljoakley8]
Can the spreadsheet url be chared in chat?
16:18:24 [Chuck]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXGNNBReQgjHSDNJ02hA9sbb5R17mpN7YnDyC2GDzCI/edit?gid=0#gid=0
16:18:39 [ljoakley8]
thank you
16:18:47 [Detlev]
alastairc: (reads out subgroups and time slots)
16:19:29 [Detlev]
...conformance subgroup is a special case, shorter, only 8 weeks - hopefully can be closed b< Feb / March
16:21:00 [Detlev]
alastairc: Anyone who did fill in survey but can't make group?
16:21:12 [Illai]
q+
16:21:42 [Detlev]
...those who didn't fill out survey - who wants to join subgroups (preferably those with low attendance)
16:21:48 [Chuck]
ack Ill
16:21:50 [Glenda]
I would like to be in User Orientation please.
16:22:18 [Detlev]
Illai: missed survey - can error & help or structure group
16:22:46 [Detlev]
alastairc: put Illai under errors & task
16:23:41 [ljoakley8]
Please add me to the sub group Input and Focus
16:23:42 [Adam_Page]
I’d like to join “Input and focus, interactive components” please
16:23:46 [Detlev]
alastairc: if people use multiple groups, that's fine, but work will happen during main meetings, so you should have prime group
16:24:17 [ShawnT]
q+ to ask about outside participation?
16:24:19 [Detlev]
...better not swap group - overhead for catching up to see where the group stands, can slow down group
16:24:25 [Chuck]
ack Shawn
16:24:25 [Zakim]
ShawnT, you wanted to ask about outside participation?
16:24:49 [kevin]
q+
16:24:53 [Chuck]
ack kevin
16:25:03 [Detlev]
ShawnT: sign language - a developer would want to participate - can someone from outside enter?
16:25:30 [Chuck]
q?
16:25:36 [Detlev]
kevin: Can participate if he/she becomes invited expert - ping Kevin
16:26:15 [Poornima]
q+
16:26:16 [Chuck]
q?
16:26:22 [Chuck]
ack Po
16:26:28 [Detlev]
alastairc: General thing: if you know someone with expertise, let chairs know - needed on voice input for example - then get in touch
16:27:22 [Detlev]
Poornima: Could continue participate if times fit in error subgroup
16:27:44 [Detlev]
alastairc: people in top line are facilitating the group
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16:28:04 [Detlev]
...select a co-facilitator to help co-ordinare
16:28:43 [Detlev]
John Kirkwood: Should be in conformance subgroup
16:28:54 [Detlev]
alastairc_ We aim to have not too many
16:29:19 [Detlev]
alastairc: The main aim of subgroups to come up with a proposal that will then come to the main group
16:29:32 [Detlev]
...so no one sidelined
16:29:33 [MURATA]
I’m afraid I’m too sleepy to stay awake, so I’ll drop off now. Thank you.
16:29:53 [Detlev]
kirkwood: This (conformance) is my area of expertise
16:30:49 [alastairc]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WkYBc_9PowZRcxp1ld13jkA2pHd-vvmeBf9sZzUDjJQ/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.gjdgxs
16:30:54 [Detlev]
alastairc: (explains what subgroups are doing)
16:31:05 [Rachael]
Also, a new folder for next year with all the content we are reviewing today https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1OoZzR8FgtsqHYLdYrMjBVY34hQEJkd8d
16:31:08 [Venkat]
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16:31:15 [Detlev]
...for details see link above
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16:31:59 [Detlev]
alastairc: work on content, come up with proposals, to enable parallel work
16:32:05 [AWK]
Is there a different document for the conformance subgroup?
16:32:15 [Detlev]
...4 hrs each week incl. meeting time
16:33:00 [Detlev]
...like go to the folder for each subgroup
16:33:28 [Detlev]
...work based on the structure of WCAG 3 document
16:34:06 [Detlev]
this link goes to the doc with links to all subgroups https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1OoZzR8FgtsqHYLdYrMjBVY34hQEJkd8d
16:34:36 [Detlev]
alastairc: take what is in the current draft, update it, flesh it out
16:35:43 [Detlev]
...for not non-guideline things for policy notes conformance - you should come back with a PR (pull request) or explain why a PR is not a good idea
16:36:08 [Detlev]
...going from developing to refining, and hopefully to mature
16:36:50 [Detlev]
...for guideline content, start from the editor's draft, create a brach and a PR to that
16:37:26 [Detlev]
for non-guidelines work , the scope is less refined to we need to define what is in and out of scope
16:38:03 [Detlev]
...check that subgroup participants have all they need (docs, permissions)
16:38:33 [Detlev]
...keep minutes during the meetings
16:39:00 [Detlev]
also people who join asynchronously should be able to stay up-to-date
16:39:12 [Detlev]
...we will have regular status updates
16:39:27 [Detlev]
...all run from the W3C calendar
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16:39:50 [Chuck]
q?
16:40:05 [Detlev]
...you can also keep notes in a separate tab of your subgroup working document
16:40:36 [Detlev]
...no one is required to use Guthub, but one sub each group should be able to work with Github
16:40:53 [Detlev]
...assuming 8 weeks chunk
16:41:19 [Detlev]
come earlier or later so not all come in at the same time for review
16:42:07 [Detlev]
...define the order you go through requirements; keep in mind user needs as documented
16:42:36 [Detlev]
...one scope and documentation is set, look at issues, examples edge cases to refine requirements
16:42:43 [Detlev]
...start of informative documents
16:43:21 [Detlev]
…around week for bring back as progress update to the group so group can react and point out what might be missing or going wrong
16:43:49 [Detlev]
…around week 8 we can then look at a PR to discuss
16:45:21 [Detlev]
…for non-guidelines work, this is aimed at defining goals, look at previous documentation, setting out scope - agree on scope - is it reasonable
16:46:04 [Detlev]
…another difference is it is not quite as easy, will need more discussion
16:46:16 [Chuck]
q?
16:46:38 [Detlev]
alastairc: Any questions
16:47:11 [Detlev]
kirkwood: Can you clarify what the expectation of the final product of the group will be?
16:47:12 [Rachael]
q+
16:47:31 [Detlev]
alastairc: PR on updated content of editor's draft
16:48:03 [Detlev]
...eg, wording updated, some tests defined, beginnings of informal documentation
16:48:05 [Chuck]
ack Rach
16:48:42 [Detlev]
Rachael: Output will be content for review by main group: PR, document, presentation on the topics the group is working on
16:48:58 [Detlev]
kirkwood: Topics are changing?
16:49:36 [alastairc]
ack Rachael
16:49:36 [Detlev]
Rachael: work is based on the guidelines of the ed draft - other issues are for conformance and policy, for example
16:50:15 [Detlev]
...subgoup work has been successful - ability to split and bring back to main group has been successful over last 2 years
16:50:23 [daniel-mac]
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16:50:29 [Detlev]
...lets continue this way
16:50:30 [kirkwood]
great thank you
16:50:32 [kevin]
Massive +1 to how well sub-groups are working!!!
16:51:26 [Detlev]
SydneyColeman: Can other people participate?
16:51:53 [Detlev]
alastairc: If others can join that is fine, they need to become WG members / invited experts
16:52:38 [Detlev]
...the goal of the subgroup is to bring back work to main group, so there should be no issue about representation
16:53:15 [Detlev]
Rachael: Add people at people pf beginning of cycle
16:53:43 [Detlev]
SydneyColeman: We have experts on media (Youtube) - will discuss how to participate
16:54:14 [Detlev]
alastairc: Will habe breakout rooms set up for the rest of the meeting
16:55:50 [tayef]
I'm assuming if I'm not in a subgroup I can drop this call?
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17:11:21 [Rachael]
To all: Thank you for all you have contributed this year. We hope you have a rest filled break and look forward to making progress next year.
17:13:58 [ShawnT]
If I have a question, can I ask it in here?
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present+
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17:40:48 [kenneth]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:40:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/16-ag-minutes.html kenneth
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17:54:30 [Priti]
How can I join the WCAG 2 task force? I am refering to the backlog task force here. Do we have a link
17:58:52 [kenneth]
Priti, I can probably take this up with Kevin if you send either of us an email (kfranqueiro@ or kevin@ w3.org)
17:58:57 [kenneth]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/groups/task-forces/wcag2x-backlog/#contribute-to-the-work
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