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15:21:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:21:36 <Zakim> Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
15:21:48 <Chuck> meeting:  AGWG-2025-12-16
15:22:11 <Chuck> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:22:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/16-ag-minutes.html Chuck
15:23:29 <Chuck> agenda+ WCAG 2.x Issues https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0064.html
15:23:38 <Chuck> agenda+ Subgroup Preparation
15:23:43 <Chuck> agenda?
15:23:48 <Chuck> zakim, clear agenda
15:23:48 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:24:02 <Chuck> agenda+ WCAG 2.x Issues https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0064.html
15:24:11 <Chuck> agenda+ Subgroup Preparation
15:25:22 <Chuck> regrets: Mary Jo Mueller, Jeroen Hulscher, Rain Michaels
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15:57:07 <MURATA> +present
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16:03:34 <kevin> present+
16:03:41 <Chuck> zakim, pick a scribe
16:03:41 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose eloisa
16:03:59 <Chuck> zakim, pick a scribe
16:03:59 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Adam_Page
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16:04:10 <Chuck> zakim, pick a scribe
16:04:10 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose scott
16:04:15 <tiffanyburtin> present+
16:04:17 <AWK> present+
16:04:28 <alastairc> chair:Chuck
16:04:31 <Chuck> zakim, pick a scribe
16:04:31 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose stevef
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16:04:46 <Chuck> zakim, pick a scribe
16:04:46 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose graham
16:04:46 <Illai> present+
16:04:47 <Jennie_Delisi> * This is the group's way of showing wanting to keep Chuck around - if nobody scribes....he has to stay?
16:05:08 <Chuck> zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:08 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jen_G
16:05:31 <Chuck> zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:31 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Detlev
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16:06:30 <Detlev> scribe: Detlev
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16:07:06 <Charu> present+
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16:07:09 <Detlev> Documentation own scriboing will be posted
16:07:15 <Bryan_Trogdon> present+
16:07:15 <Laura_Carlson> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribing_Commands_and_Related_Info
16:07:19 <BrianE> present+
16:07:23 <Detlev> Chuck: Any introductions?
16:07:43 <Priti> present+
16:07:45 <Laura_Carlson> present+ Laura_Carlson
16:08:14 <alastairc> Noting this is our second Makoto (Murata) we have another one called Makoto Ueki.
16:08:14 <Detlev> Murata is first time at the meeting - welcome!
16:08:42 <Detlev> Chuck: Announcements: Last meeting today in 2025
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16:08:48 <julierawe> present+
16:08:50 <Detlev> ...thanks to all
16:09:20 <Detlev> Rachael: There will be a CfC over the COGA Issues pages
16:09:34 <hdv> q+
16:09:41 <Chuck> ack ala
16:09:44 <Chuck> ack hdv
16:09:48 <alastairc> q+
16:10:02 <Chuck> ack ala
16:10:08 <Detlev> Hidde: CfC this week fro draft not publication of WCAG EM
16:10:16 <Detlev> draft note publication
16:10:36 <Chuck> q?
16:10:43 <Chuck> zakim, take up item 1
16:10:43 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- WCAG 2.x Issues https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0064.html -- taken up [from Chuck]
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16:11:04 <Detlev> Chuck: WCAG 2.X issues
16:11:05 <hdv> s/CfC this week fro draft not publication of WCAG EM/wanted to double check, we'll also start the CFC for publication of WCAG-EM 2.0 as a draft note this week/
16:11:13 <ljoakley8> present+
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16:11:31 <Detlev> mbgower: Not enough issues right now, probably next Friday
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16:12:00 <Detlev> ...new items will be introduced first meeting 2026, then there will be ample time to review
16:12:02 <Chuck> q?
16:12:47 <Detlev> ...meetings are on Friday 11:00 each Friday EST - next on January 9th
16:13:15 <Detlev> ...still looking to co-facilitator fot WCAG 2.X issues task force
16:13:17 <kenneth> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/wcag2x-backlog/calendar/ (will be extending the recurrence into 2026 soon)
16:13:48 <Detlev> Chuck: any questions about TF?
16:13:59 <Chuck> zakim, take up item 2
16:13:59 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Subgroup Preparation -- taken up [from Chuck]
16:14:13 <Glenda> present+
16:14:30 <Poornima> present+
16:14:45 <Detlev> Chuck: soft reset to reset work done by TFs - next round is planned via survey to register interest to participate
16:15:14 <alastairc> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXGNNBReQgjHSDNJ02hA9sbb5R17mpN7YnDyC2GDzCI/edit?gid=0#gid=0
16:15:23 <Detlev> ...also updated handbook
16:15:45 <Detlev> Alastair: Going to subgroups
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16:16:12 <ljoakley8> i missed the survey, how can I get added to a group?
16:16:13 <Detlev> alastairc: people were allocated to groups, balanced out a bit
16:16:45 <Detlev> alastairc: we can add names here (for those who missed survey)
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16:16:55 <Detlev> ...specified time slots for groups
16:17:13 <Detlev> image subgroup pacific-friendly time
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16:18:07 <Detlev> ...meeting times for subgroups are available via the link above
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16:18:14 <ljoakley8> Can the spreadsheet url be chared in chat?
16:18:24 <Chuck> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXGNNBReQgjHSDNJ02hA9sbb5R17mpN7YnDyC2GDzCI/edit?gid=0#gid=0
16:18:39 <ljoakley8> thank you
16:18:47 <Detlev> alastairc: (reads out subgroups and time slots)
16:19:29 <Detlev> ...conformance subgroup is a special case, shorter, only 8 weeks - hopefully can be closed b< Feb / March
16:21:00 <Detlev> alastairc: Anyone who did fill in survey but can't make group?
16:21:12 <Illai> q+
16:21:42 <Detlev> ...those who didn't fill out survey - who wants to join subgroups (preferably those with low attendance)
16:21:48 <Chuck> ack Ill
16:21:50 <Glenda> I would like to be in User Orientation please.
16:22:18 <Detlev> Illai: missed survey - can error & help or structure group
16:22:46 <Detlev> alastairc: put Illai under errors & task
16:23:41 <ljoakley8> Please add me to the sub group Input and Focus
16:23:42 <Adam_Page> I’d like to join “Input and focus, interactive components” please
16:23:46 <Detlev> alastairc: if people use multiple groups, that's fine, but work will happen during main meetings, so you should have prime group
16:24:17 <ShawnT> q+ to ask about outside participation?
16:24:19 <Detlev> ...better not swap group - overhead for catching up to see where the group stands, can slow down group
16:24:25 <Chuck> ack Shawn
16:24:25 <Zakim> ShawnT, you wanted to ask about outside participation?
16:24:49 <kevin> q+
16:24:53 <Chuck> ack kevin
16:25:03 <Detlev> ShawnT: sign language - a developer would want to participate - can someone from outside enter?
16:25:30 <Chuck> q?
16:25:36 <Detlev> kevin: Can participate if he/she becomes invited expert - ping Kevin
16:26:15 <Poornima> q+
16:26:16 <Chuck> q?
16:26:22 <Chuck> ack Po
16:26:28 <Detlev> alastairc: General thing: if you know someone with expertise, let chairs know - needed on voice input for example - then get in touch
16:27:22 <Detlev> Poornima: Could continue participate if times fit in error subgroup
16:27:44 <Detlev> alastairc: people in top line are facilitating the group
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16:28:04 <Detlev> ...select a co-facilitator to help co-ordinare
16:28:43 <Detlev> John Kirkwood: Should be in conformance subgroup
16:28:54 <Detlev> alastairc_ We aim to have not too many
16:29:19 <Detlev> alastairc: The main aim of subgroups to come up with a proposal that will then come to the main group
16:29:32 <Detlev> ...so no one sidelined
16:29:33 <MURATA> I’m afraid I’m too sleepy to stay awake, so I’ll drop off now. Thank you.
16:29:53 <Detlev> kirkwood: This (conformance) is my area of expertise
16:30:49 <alastairc> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WkYBc_9PowZRcxp1ld13jkA2pHd-vvmeBf9sZzUDjJQ/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.gjdgxs
16:30:54 <Detlev> alastairc: (explains what subgroups are doing)
16:31:05 <Rachael> Also, a new folder for next year with all the content we are reviewing today https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1OoZzR8FgtsqHYLdYrMjBVY34hQEJkd8d
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16:31:15 <Detlev> ...for details see link above
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16:31:59 <Detlev> alastairc: work on content, come up with proposals, to enable parallel work
16:32:05 <AWK> Is there a different document for the conformance subgroup?
16:32:15 <Detlev> ...4 hrs each week incl. meeting time
16:33:00 <Detlev> ...like go to the folder for each subgroup
16:33:28 <Detlev> ...work based on the structure of WCAG 3 document
16:34:06 <Detlev> this link goes to the doc with links to all subgroups https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1OoZzR8FgtsqHYLdYrMjBVY34hQEJkd8d
16:34:36 <Detlev> alastairc: take what is in the current draft, update it, flesh it out
16:35:43 <Detlev> ...for not non-guideline things for policy notes conformance - you should come back with a PR (pull request) or explain why a PR is not a good idea
16:36:08 <Detlev> ...going from developing to refining, and hopefully to mature
16:36:50 <Detlev> ...for guideline content, start from the editor's draft, create a brach and a PR to that
16:37:26 <Detlev> for non-guidelines work , the scope is less refined to we need to define what is in and out of scope
16:38:03 <Detlev> ...check that subgroup participants have all they need (docs, permissions)
16:38:33 <Detlev> ...keep minutes during the meetings
16:39:00 <Detlev> also people who join asynchronously should be able to stay up-to-date
16:39:12 <Detlev> ...we will have regular status updates
16:39:27 <Detlev> ...all run from the W3C calendar
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16:39:50 <Chuck> q?
16:40:05 <Detlev> ...you can also keep notes in a separate tab of your subgroup working document
16:40:36 <Detlev> ...no one is required to use Guthub, but one sub each group should be able to work with Github
16:40:53 <Detlev> ...assuming 8 weeks chunk
16:41:19 <Detlev> come earlier or later so not all come in at the same time for review
16:42:07 <Detlev> ...define the order you go through requirements; keep in mind user needs as documented
16:42:36 <Detlev> ...one scope and documentation is set, look at issues, examples edge cases to refine requirements
16:42:43 <Detlev> ...start of informative documents
16:43:21 <Detlev> …around week for bring back as progress update to the group so group can react and point out what might be missing or going wrong
16:43:49 <Detlev> …around week 8 we can then look at a PR to discuss
16:45:21 <Detlev> …for non-guidelines work, this is aimed at defining goals, look at previous documentation, setting out scope - agree on scope - is it reasonable
16:46:04 <Detlev> …another difference is it is not quite as easy, will need more discussion
16:46:16 <Chuck> q?
16:46:38 <Detlev> alastairc: Any questions
16:47:11 <Detlev> kirkwood: Can you clarify what the expectation of the final product of the group will be?
16:47:12 <Rachael> q+
16:47:31 <Detlev> alastairc: PR on updated content of editor's draft
16:48:03 <Detlev> ...eg, wording updated, some tests defined, beginnings of informal documentation
16:48:05 <Chuck> ack Rach
16:48:42 <Detlev> Rachael: Output will be content for review by main group: PR, document, presentation on the topics the group is working on
16:48:58 <Detlev> kirkwood: Topics are changing?
16:49:36 <alastairc> ack Rachael
16:49:36 <Detlev> Rachael: work is based on the guidelines of the ed draft - other issues are for conformance and policy, for example
16:50:15 <Detlev> ...subgoup work has been successful - ability to split and bring back to main group has been successful over last 2 years
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16:50:29 <Detlev> ...lets continue this way
16:50:30 <kirkwood> great thank you
16:50:32 <kevin> Massive +1 to how well sub-groups are working!!!
16:51:26 <Detlev> SydneyColeman: Can other people participate?
16:51:53 <Detlev> alastairc: If others can join that is fine, they need to become WG members / invited experts
16:52:38 <Detlev> ...the goal of the subgroup is to bring back work to main group, so there should be no issue about representation
16:53:15 <Detlev> Rachael: Add people at people pf beginning of cycle
16:53:43 <Detlev> SydneyColeman: We have experts on media (Youtube) -  will discuss how to participate
16:54:14 <Detlev> alastairc: Will habe breakout rooms set up for the rest of the meeting
16:55:50 <tayef> I'm assuming if I'm not in a subgroup I can drop this call?
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17:11:21 <Rachael> To all: Thank you for all you have contributed this year. We hope you have a rest filled break and look forward to making progress next year.
17:13:58 <ShawnT> If I have a question, can I ask it in here?
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17:29:44 <Detlev> present+
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17:40:48 <kenneth> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:40:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/16-ag-minutes.html kenneth
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17:54:30 <Priti> How can I join the WCAG 2 task force? I am refering to the backlog task force here. Do we have a link
17:58:52 <kenneth> Priti, I can probably take this up with Kevin if you send either of us an email (kfranqueiro@ or kevin@ w3.org)
17:58:57 <kenneth> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/groups/task-forces/wcag2x-backlog/#contribute-to-the-work
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