14:41:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
14:41:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-irc
14:41:56 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
14:41:56 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:41:58 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
14:42:05 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
14:42:15 <acoburn> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20251215T100000/#agenda
14:42:16 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:42:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Introductions & Announcements
14:42:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Authentication & Authorization Proposals
14:42:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Storage Description Discussion
14:42:16 <agendabot> agenda+ CRUD & Metadata Proposal
14:44:57 <acoburn> rrsagent, make minutes
14:44:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html acoburn
14:46:30 <acoburn> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/12/08-lws-minutes.html
14:46:41 <acoburn> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:46:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html acoburn
14:47:39 <acoburn> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/01/05-lws-minutes.html
14:47:46 <acoburn> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:47:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html acoburn
14:59:00 <pchampin> present+
14:59:08 <acoburn> present+
14:59:19 <RazaN> RazaN has joined #lws
15:00:12 <gibsonf1> gibsonf1 has joined #lws
15:01:03 <gibsonf1> present+
15:01:49 <bendm> bendm has joined #lws
15:02:00 <ericP> ericP has joined #lws
15:02:07 <ericP> present+
15:02:28 <bendm> present+
15:02:37 <laurens> laurens has joined #lws
15:02:47 <laurens> present+
15:04:23 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #lws
15:05:15 <ryey> ryey has joined #lws
15:05:19 <ryey> present+
15:05:47 <ryey> scribe: ryey
15:05:57 <eBremer> eBremer has joined #lws
15:06:05 <ericP> topic: Introductions & Announcements
15:06:09 <eBremer> present+
15:06:19 <acoburn> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:06:40 <gibsonf1> q+
15:07:01 <ericP> ack next
15:07:05 <ryey> acoburn: there is no meeting next two weeks due to holiday. We'll be back in January
15:07:31 <ryey> gibsonf1: about Type Index: how do we work on that?
15:08:39 <RazaN> present+
15:08:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:09:01 <ryey> acoburn: I personally start with a google doc that is sharable. Then invite others to take an early look of it. Then introduce more widely. Ask questions among the people during discussion. Then open PR, if the text is in good form.
15:09:19 <ericP> topic: Authentication & Authorization Proposals
15:09:53 <TallTed> i|scribe: ryey|chair: ericP
15:10:17 <ryey> acoburn: We talked about auth&authn in the last few weeks. We vote on it this week. If passes, we go to the next item.
15:10:30 <ryey> ... Any further questions before going to that?
15:10:34 <acoburn> PROPOSED: To approve w3c/lws-protocol#43 (LWS Authentication) as an authentication model for LWS
15:10:35 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/43 -> Pull Request 43 LWS Authentication (by acoburn)
15:10:48 <ericP> +1
15:10:51 <laurens> +1
15:10:54 <eBremer> +1
15:10:59 <acoburn> +1
15:11:07 <RazaN> =1
15:11:11 <RazaN> +1
15:11:11 <ryey> +1
15:11:14 <pchampin> +1
15:11:15 <gibsonf1> +1
15:11:22 <jeswr> jeswr has joined #lws
15:11:24 <TallTed> +1
15:11:27 <bendm> +1
15:11:28 <jeswr> +1
15:11:52 <AZ> AZ has joined #lws
15:11:55 <AZ> present+
15:11:55 <acoburn> RESOLVED: To approve w3c/lws-protocol#43 (LWS Authentication) as an authentication model for LWS
15:12:08 <acoburn> PROPOSED: To approve w3c/lws-protocol#45 (LWS Authorization) as an authorization model for LWS
15:12:09 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/45 -> Pull Request 45 LWS Authorization (by acoburn)
15:12:15 <ericP> +1
15:12:16 <eBremer> +1
15:12:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:12:24 <jeswr> +1
15:12:32 <acoburn> +1
15:12:33 <laurens> +1
15:12:37 <RazaN> +1
15:12:40 <TallTed> +1
15:12:48 <pchampin> +1
15:12:51 <gibsonf1> +1
15:13:01 <bendm> +1
15:13:05 <ryey> +0.5
15:14:01 <acoburn> RESOLVED: To approve w3c/lws-protocol#45 (LWS Authorization) as an authorization model for LWS
15:14:07 <ericP> agenda?
15:15:45 <ericP> zakim, next agendum
15:15:45 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Storage Description Discussion -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:17:04 <ryey> acoburn: We talked about this during F2F meeting, then here a few weeks ago. I tinkered around with the early draft.
15:17:17 <ryey> ... The questions is on the *subject*
15:17:28 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:17:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html pchampin
15:19:29 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #lws
15:19:43 <dmitriz> i think storage as subject makes more sense.
15:19:44 <ericP> q+
15:19:55 <ryey> ... You see the `id` here. Assume it's at the root. You dereference it returns the description. Should the id be the description? Or, should the id be the storage?
15:20:02 <gibsonf1> +1 as storage as subject
15:20:04 <ericP> ack next
15:20:41 <gibsonf1> q+ to ask what is the uri for the storage request
15:20:57 <ryey> ericP: I prefer id be the storage
15:21:01 <ericP> ack next
15:21:02 <Zakim> gibsonf, you wanted to ask what is the uri for the storage request
15:21:35 <ryey> gibsonf1: what's the request?
15:21:48 <ryey> acoburn: You do a GET of xxxxx
15:22:50 <ryey> gibsonf1: Does that have to be that exact location between the storage and the description?
15:23:01 <ryey> acoburn: No, it doesn't have to be hierarchical
15:23:38 <ericP> q?
15:23:46 <ryey> ... In the link header, there will be a storage description field linking to the description
15:24:10 <pchampin> q+
15:24:49 <ericP> ack next
15:25:21 <ryey> pchampin: to the initial questions of acoburn: I don't have a strong preference, but slightly towards the storage as the id.
15:26:29 <laurens> +1 to storage as root
15:26:41 <ryey> ... having the storage description at the root may be more natural for RDF people. But because this is for storage description, maybe a JSON person may find it more natural to have the root as the id, because of the hierarchical nature of JSON; while RDF doesn't have to do this, and either is fine.
15:27:36 <ryey> ericP: when you are writing the assertion, you are writing for the storage, rather for the storage description
15:27:52 <ryey> s/rather for/rather than/
15:28:06 <gibsonf1> q+ to ask on root vs storage in general
15:28:28 <elf-pavlik> q+
15:28:39 <TallTed> i|scribe: ryey|<TallTed> present+
15:28:58 <elf-pavlik> present+
15:29:08 <ryey> acoburn: I'm fine with either way. But it seem the general consensus is the second option.
15:30:10 <ryey> dmitriz: I agree. Most seems the same to me. The storage description is kept minimal, and everything else is reserved for other Links, e.g. storage capabilities.
15:30:50 <ericP> ack next
15:30:51 <Zakim> gibsonf, you wanted to ask on root vs storage in general
15:31:07 <ryey> ... In JSON-LD, you can set a default context, to keep compatibility
15:31:55 <ryey> gibsonf1: I do a get to the root container, and that gets the storage?
15:32:22 <ryey> ... maybe we want a URI for the storage that is different from the URI of the root container?
15:32:25 <TallTed> analogous to volume and (first sub-)directory
15:32:31 <ericP> ack next
15:32:44 <ryey> acoburn: it will be a significant departure if we consider Solid
15:33:36 <ryey> elf-pavlik: cccccc?
15:33:52 <ryey> acoburn: The storage won't be a client.
15:34:26 <elf-pavlik> s/cccccc?/would storage ever act as a client, for example to send notifications?/
15:35:58 <ryey> ... You can append the key id to the URI
15:36:16 <dmitriz> to me, I don't think storage should ever act as the client
15:36:33 <dmitriz> if you want that, an explicit notion of a server (or a notification service) makes more sense
15:36:39 <ryey> elf-pavlik: there may be issues if you expose some key from the description. maybe there was a point of that
15:37:07 <ericP> zakim, next agendum
15:37:07 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- CRUD & Metadata Proposal -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:37:11 <ryey> acoburn: maybe let's postpone that? we can make a UC/issue for that, and discuss it if it becomes more concrete
15:37:30 <elf-pavlik> dmitriz, I think it's fair, I just think it is important to consider it and maybe document that storage can't act as a client
15:37:58 <dmitriz> @elf definitely, yeah
15:37:58 <gb> https://github.com/elf -> @elf
15:38:14 <ryey> eBremer: This issue (agendum 4) has been there for some time. We received some comments.
15:38:20 <ryey> ... Second one is from elf-pavilik
15:38:59 <ryey> elf-pavlik: It may not be very friendly with offline persons, not just CRDTs. Apps may want to create some resources, and link them together.
15:39:18 <dmitriz> q+
15:39:25 <TallTed> s/@elf definitely/@elf-pavlik definitely
15:39:31 <ericP> ack next
15:39:39 <ryey> ... I don't want to block it. But think it's worth making this explicit
15:39:50 <TallTed> s/elf -> @elf/elf-pavlik -> @elf-pavlik
15:39:56 <ryey> dmitriz: If it's not bothersome, we should support offline-first
15:40:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:40:15 <pchampin> s|https://github.com/elf -> @elf|
15:40:33 <ericP> s/bothersome/burdensome/
15:40:46 <ericP> q?
15:40:55 <ryey> eBremer: Let's close the PR, not meant completely solved. In the meantime, we create relevant further PRs (or issues?) for discussion, for moving further
15:41:01 <bendm> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/37
15:41:01 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/37 -> Pull Request 37 Initial CRUD with proposed metadata handling (by ebremer)
15:41:10 <ryey> ... or do we need more time?
15:41:46 <ericP> PROPOSED: merge PR 37 from eBremer
15:41:52 <eBremer> +1
15:41:54 <ericP> +1
15:41:58 <elf-pavlik> +1 - as non member
15:42:05 <acoburn> +1
15:42:06 <dmitriz> +0 (would like more time to review)
15:42:17 <TallTed> +0.8
15:42:18 <gibsonf1> +0 (more time to review)
15:42:21 <bendm> +0 (but I don't mind reviewing the merged one)
15:42:33 <ryey> +0 (would like more time)
15:42:36 <AZ> +0
15:43:27 <elf-pavlik> q+
15:43:32 <ryey> acoburn: it looks people are generally positive. Let's wait a while for reviewing. Please raise questions in the PR directly, rather than waiting.
15:43:34 <ericP> ack next
15:44:00 <dmitriz> comment directly
15:44:13 <dmitriz> issues about PRs is too many inception levels :)
15:44:14 <ryey> elf-pavlik: I have some personal questions, not for blocking any PRs. Does the WG prefer creating more PRs, or comment on existing ones?
15:44:48 <ryey> eBremer: please comment on the PR directly
15:45:09 <ryey> ericP: this is editor's draft, not public working draft yet
15:45:10 <dmitriz> q+
15:45:29 <ericP> ack next
15:45:36 <ryey> acoburn: we are still not yet a CR draft yet
15:45:48 <ryey> dmitriz: is it for this PR specifically, or about PRs in general?
15:46:19 <ryey> elf-pavlik: is there are additional questions, but don't want to block it, how do people do the commenting?
15:47:00 <ryey> dmitriz: Good point. Fortunately github provides a button for converting a discussion to an issue, while keeping all the provenance.
15:47:23 <dmitriz> +1 about the 'nonblocking' comment convention
15:47:24 <ryey> ericP: or are you implicitly proposing to move to a non-blocking nature of working?
15:47:39 <ericP> zakim, next agendum
15:47:39 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, ericP
15:47:53 <elf-pavlik> q+
15:48:21 <ryey> elf-pavlik: I have some questions of client authentication, if time allowed
15:48:47 <ryey> ericP: who wants to linker (?) around?
15:48:51 <ericP> adjourned
15:49:01 <ericP> s/linker/linger/
15:49:12 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
15:49:12 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
15:49:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
15:49:32 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-irc
15:49:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:49:45 <TallTed> Zakim, end meeting
15:49:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ericP, elf-pavlik, acoburn, gibsonf, pchampin, eBremer, TallTed, bendm, jeswr, dmitriz, laurens, ryey, RazaN, AZ
15:49:48 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:49:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/15-lws-minutes.html Zakim
15:49:51 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, TallTed; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:49:53 <TallTed> RRSAgent, bye
15:49:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #lws
15:50:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items