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14:50:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:50:41 <Zakim> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:50:43 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
14:50:43 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:50:50 <maryjom> chair:  Mary Jo Mueller
14:50:59 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
14:51:07 <maryjom> Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
14:51:07 <Zakim> ok, maryjom
14:51:10 <maryjom> agenda+ Announcements
14:53:42 <maryjom> agenda+ 1.2.8 Media Alternative (AAA)
14:53:55 <maryjom> agenda+ 1.2.8 Media Alternative (AAA)
14:54:07 <maryjom> agenda+ Other Level AAA criteria
14:56:32 <maryjom> agenda?
14:56:57 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
14:56:57 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:57:02 <maryjom> agenda+ Announcements
14:57:17 <maryjom> agenda+ 1.2.8 Media Alternative (AAA)
14:57:39 <maryjom> agenda+ 1.2.9 Audio Only (Live) (AAA)
14:57:44 <maryjom> agenda+ Other Level AAA criteria
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15:02:26 <bbailey> present+
15:02:33 <maryjom> present+
15:02:35 <loicmn> present+
15:02:44 <LauraM> LauraM has joined #WCAG2ICT
15:02:51 <LauraM> present+
15:03:22 <LauraM> scribe+ LauraM
15:03:34 <Daniel> present+
15:04:26 <LauraM> zakim, next item
15:04:26 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:04:56 <LauraM> Maryjom: Announcements. Call for consensus of AGWG: No negative responses.
15:05:07 <Daniel> scribe+
15:05:07 <Daniel> 
15:05:07 <Daniel> Daniel: The WCAG2ICT updated Note has been published to https://www.w3.org/TR/2025/NOTE-wcag2ict-22-20251211/
15:05:07 <Daniel> 
15:05:07 <Daniel> ... https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/ works as a short URL
15:05:07 <Daniel> 
15:05:08 <Daniel> ... We are working on also redirecting https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/ to the 11 Dec 2025 version.
15:05:08 <Daniel> 
15:05:08 <Daniel> scribe-
15:05:10 <LauraM> Editors draft.
15:05:26 <bbailey> Woot!
15:06:32 <bbailey> q+
15:06:35 <maryjom> regrets:  Phil Day
15:06:40 <LauraM> ack bbailey
15:06:42 <maryjom> ack bbailey
15:07:04 <LauraM> Bbailey: we ended up publishing something with a precondition?
15:07:14 <LauraM> Daniel: yes, used in EN.
15:08:31 <maryjom> Issue 822: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/822
15:08:32 <LauraM> maryjom: there was a new issue opened #822
15:09:08 <bbailey> q+ more annoucements?
15:09:10 <LauraM> maryjom: should be disposed of pretty quickly. Question is why would a font have a lower contrast when you increase screen scaling?
15:10:11 <bbailey> I wanted to mention ACT 1.1 out for CFC (not our work)
15:11:05 <LauraM> maryjom: if anyone wants to weigh in on that to cover new types of test cases.
15:12:27 <bbailey> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0107.html
15:12:28 <bbailey> CFC - Publication of ACT Rules Format 1.1
15:12:34 <LauraM> maryjom: changes at IBM. Retiring or new positions. Mike Gower, co facilitator with Bruce. Two new facilitators needed for WCAG2-Issues
15:12:47 <LauraM> Patrick Lauck will be one.
15:13:32 <bbailey> WCAG2-Issues (aka Backlog) looking for new TF facilitators starting with the new year.
15:16:47 <maryjom> TOPIC: New Issue #822
15:17:03 <maryjom> Issue link: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/822
15:18:09 <LauraM> Maryjom: had Daniel clean out the template that was in WCAG2ICT . So now it is gone and when someone opens a new issue it will be blank
15:18:25 <bbailey> q+ to propose moving to a discussion
15:19:00 <LauraM> Somebody opened an issue against Accessibility Insights. When screen scaling when high the contrast was no longer sufficient.
15:19:12 <bbailey> I propose converting to a discussion.  I understand why they are asking on our repo.
15:19:48 <LauraM> ack bbailey
15:19:48 <Zakim> bbailey, you wanted to propose moving to a discussion
15:20:02 <maryjom> ack bbailey
15:20:12 <bbailey> +1 to MJ proposed response
15:20:31 <LauraM> bbailey: proposed to move to discussion but agree with the proposed response.
15:21:26 <LauraM> bbailey: suggest they publicly as the question to get public feedback.
15:21:35 <LauraM> s/as/ask
15:22:01 <LauraM> q+
15:22:16 <LauraM> ack lauram
15:22:17 <maryjom> ack LauraM
15:23:20 <LauraM> lauram: should this be added to future issues for WCAG2ICT to discuss
15:23:28 <LauraM> Maryjom: Do we need to add a note?
15:24:16 <LauraM> lauram: this seems like a test condition
15:25:30 <maryjom> DRAFT RESOLUTION: Answer issue #822, as proposed
15:25:52 <maryjom> Draft answer: The template was only for our Task Force use a as we were developing the document. We have removed the template to avoid confusion since that part of the WCAG2ICT work is done.
15:25:52 <maryjom> The issue you describe seems to be a testing issue. WCAG2ICT does not provide any development or testing guidance for non-web technologies. It only provides the non-web language substitutions for language in WCAG success criteria, and explanations where there may be difficulties in non-web technology support for individual criteria since non-web
15:25:52 <maryjom> software covers a wide variety of technologies.  The issue you describe seems to be a test condition that you'd need to adjust for testing on the Windows platform.
15:26:23 <Daniel> +1
15:26:31 <bbailey> +1
15:26:55 <LauraM> +1
15:27:24 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Answer issue #822, as proposed
15:27:57 <LauraM> zakim, next item
15:27:57 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LauraM
15:28:02 <maryjom> ack LauraM
15:28:11 <LauraM> zakim, next item
15:28:11 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LauraM
15:28:20 <Daniel> q?
15:28:29 <maryjom> ack more
15:28:29 <bbailey> ack
15:28:29 <Daniel> ack mor
15:28:35 <maryjom> ack annoucements
15:28:37 <Daniel> ack ann
15:29:02 <LauraM> zakim, next item
15:29:02 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- 1.2.8 Media Alternative (AAA) -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:29:19 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/534#issuecomment-3502229256
15:29:52 <LauraM> maryjom: media alternative (prerecorded).
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15:30:35 <loicmn> present+
15:31:43 <LauraM> maryjom: Phil had some suggested text for notes.
15:32:54 <LauraM> maryjom: adding something to cover new technologies was supported by Loic and Bruce
15:34:15 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:34:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel
15:35:31 <bbailey> The generative AI example is an example not live, it is pre-programmed software.
15:36:16 <maryjom> NOTE 1
15:36:16 <maryjom> As described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 1.2.8, this success criterion is concerned with providing an accessible alternative to time-based media such as audio visual material. This accessible alternative could be in text form, may provide a running description, and could read something like a book.
15:36:16 <maryjom> A system that only uses audio visual media as a redundant addition to other forms of information (such as in text form and as audio guidance) such that the information conveyed in the audio visual media is already fully described by the other forms of media would meet the intent of this Success Criterion.
15:36:19 <Daniel> s/2025 version./2025 version. 1.3.4 still has the word "precondition". Didn't want to stop publication, but we should fix in a future update./
15:36:50 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:36:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel
15:37:11 <bbailey> q+ to suggest working offline
15:37:18 <maryjom> ack bbailey
15:37:18 <Zakim> bbailey, you wanted to suggest working offline
15:38:00 <LauraM> maryjom: we will need to make adjustments to the second paragraph to address this but we are not sure how to change it yet.
15:38:59 <bbailey> Could change second sentence to:  Prerecorded could include media that is generated on-demand such as by generative AI.
15:39:35 <bbailey> q+ to change "this" to "prerecorded"
15:39:48 <LauraM> Maryjom: Maybe we should adjust note three.
15:40:29 <maryjom> NOTE 3
15:40:29 <maryjom> Prerecorded media is defined as information that is not live and is not computer generated. Examples of media content that is not considered live is content generated on-demand such as by generative AI.
15:40:48 <bbailey> ack me
15:40:48 <Zakim> bbailey, you wanted to change "this" to "prerecorded"
15:41:08 <LauraM> bbailey: I do not like the word defined
15:41:31 <maryjom> > Prerecorded media is information that is not live and is not computer generated. Examples of media content that is not considered live is content generated on-demand such as by generative AI.
15:42:09 <LauraM> maryjom: Should we create a google doc and work from there?
15:42:13 <LauraM> +1 to google doc
15:43:11 <bbailey> q+ to ask if anyone else concerned with Note 1 2nd paragraph
15:43:17 <maryjom> ack bbailey
15:43:17 <Zakim> bbailey, you wanted to ask if anyone else concerned with Note 1 2nd paragraph
15:43:43 <LauraM> bbailey: did anyone else have issue with the second sentence of Phil's note 1.
15:44:07 <LauraM> bbailey: that was the one that Gregg commented on.
15:46:26 <bbailey> yes, 2nd paragraph of note 1 (not 2nd sentence)
15:46:50 <bbailey> i agree it was fair paraphrase from Understanding
15:47:29 <LauraM> zakim, next item
15:47:29 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- 1.2.9 Audio Only (Live) (AAA) -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:47:30 <maryjom> q?
15:47:49 <maryjom> Issue 535: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/535#issuecomment-3549250363
15:50:08 <bbailey> +1 to gregg's comment in thread that we should clarify something about conference calls
15:52:26 <LauraM> bbailey: sirius/xm is audio only but Maryjom asked if it's a document.
15:52:42 <LauraM> Maryjom: it's content presented through software
15:53:05 <LauraM> bbailey: it's content, not web content. Live content.
15:53:20 <loicmn> q+ to agree with Gregg streaming implies software
15:53:30 <LauraM> ack loicmn
15:53:30 <maryjom> ack loicmn
15:53:31 <Zakim> loicmn, you wanted to agree with Gregg streaming implies software
15:54:13 <maryjom> Gregg's proposed note: This SC does not apply to "non-web documents" because any non-web entity that was streaming presenting live audio content would be considered software".
15:54:14 <LauraM> Loicmn: I  agree with something related to proposing a note that explains that any non web content being streamed is not a document
15:54:37 <LauraM> bbailey: anything live is not a document (in general)
15:55:33 <LauraM> maryjom: might create a PR on this for the next time.
15:55:43 <LauraM> +1
15:55:46 <loicmn> +1
15:55:50 <bbailey> +1
15:56:27 <maryjom> Use issue 791: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/791
15:56:58 <LauraM> maryjom: look at issue 791 to take a look at other AAA criteria and their proposals
15:57:11 <bbailey> q+
15:57:16 <LauraM> ack bbailey
15:57:19 <maryjom> ack bbailey
15:57:37 <Daniel> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/791
15:58:11 <LauraM> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:58:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html LauraM
15:58:43 <LauraM> Maryjom: Next meeting is January 8.
15:58:58 <LauraM> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html LauraM
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16:16:24 <maryjom> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:16:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
16:16:33 <maryjom> zakim, end meeting
16:16:33 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been bbailey, maryjom, loicmn, LauraM, Daniel
16:16:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:16:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
16:16:42 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:16:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
16:16:46 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
16:16:46 <RRSAgent> I see no action items