14:06:32 RRSAgent has joined #coga 14:06:36 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-coga-irc 14:06:36 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:06:37 Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 14:06:46 agenda? 14:06:59 next item 14:07:11 1. Date changedchange to late march (should we make it april)? 14:07:12 Meeting: COGA Research Subgroup Call 14:07:24 any objections? 14:07:34 chair: Lisa 14:07:44 date: 11 dec 2025 14:10:21 scribe+ 14:10:25 scribe: len 14:10:37 scribe: lenb 14:10:47 q+ 14:11:02 Lisa: we need to make sure we have enough time for reviews. Is moving our timing out to late March going to work? 14:11:18 ack next 14:11:41 Rashmi: We've been working on these papers for so long, new research has come out. Should we include new research? 14:12:39 julierawe: Concerned that if we include it all, we may end blowing way past the new deadlines. We're already asking for feedback and new research in our drafts. 14:13:07 Lisa: clarified that we could be looking for new research during the feedback cycle and not slow down our release dates. 14:13:24 Lisa clarified that we will not try to add new research before publishing. We will use the review period to start looking for new research to include in the next version. 14:13:24 any objections? 14:13:28 Q? 14:13:35 agenda? 14:13:58 Lisa: we should be calling these 'research modules' 14:14:20 Eric_hind: Are we asking people to add their own research or take it as is? 14:15:05 julierawe and Lisa clarified that in our review section / paper status section we ask for more research and tell people how to share it with us. 14:15:49 Lisa: Walked through issues that stop us from publishing our first draft. 14:17:09 ...first item was about our bullet list describing our intended audience and then the following paragraph about it being a source for Making Content Usable. Janina asked if these were used primarily for W3C groups. 14:18:41 ...shared a re-written version that shows W3C as primary and our previous bullets (which included researchers, policy makers, developers, etc) as secondary. 14:19:33 q+ 14:19:41 ack next 14:20:23 Rashmi: talking about the second bullet about policy makers, there are other catogories like security and safety? 14:21:18 ... since they would be helpful for a variety of policy maker categories, should we list them? 14:22:41 Lisa: we'd like to keep it more broad here instead of matching the title and introduction with specific policy categories. 14:24:20 Clarified that we're updating this section and content to be generic enough we can use in all of our research modules. 14:25:11 any objections? 14:25:17 Lisa: in the use case sections add editors notes about next versions. 14:26:17 Rashmi: do we need to chance titles to 'user needs' instead of 'user cases'? 14:26:29 Lisa: that isn't needed 14:28:32 ...Janina's technical approach to documentation called out a few more things about how we're saying things. Example, we say 'we intend to...' and Janina recommended we re-write to sya what we are doing. 14:28:32 Lisa walked through an update to the editors not in '2.1 older modules and issue papers'. 14:32:37 any objections? 14:32:40 Julie and Lisa talked about how confusing changing these name of these documentes from issues papers to research modules will be for some people. Restating the name change in the document could help people sync up to the change. 14:33:25 Lisa: is anyone seeing anything we should share back with the larger group before we start our CFC process? 14:35:11 LenB: I don't think these stop us from a CFC. Sharing updates with the group would be good for awareness. 14:36:58 Lisa: not 'our CFC' since we've done that. I'm asking about starting 'their CFC'. 14:39:38 Lisa: we can share it with the main group after we get our edits in the doc. 14:40:10 next item 14:40:39 julierawe and Lisa talked timing and next steps on these edits. 14:41:48 next item 14:42:22 Lisa: we might need to cancel the next few meetings since their times are set for Holidays. COGA has decided to take 2 weeks off, but as a subgroup we might have calls. Keep an eye out for invite udpates. 14:43:53 Lisa: introduced the concept of a CSS timeline. It doesn't look like accessibility was considered in the document. Janina also agrees and wants to see some updates to it. 14:44:30 ...Janina would like us to add our own issues. Eric_hind will be adding issues to github. 14:44:38 q+ 14:46:14 Eric_hind: our biggest concerns were about definitions since this is a paper of subtopics related to other papers. It's not clear how things are being defined. 14:46:32 julierawe: Agreed that definitions are missing - even clearly defining what is an animation. 14:47:54 Eric_hind: if it s not clear to us it will not be clear to the general public. 14:48:49 Lisa: maybe we need to check with Janina on these questions and help us understand how these documents work before we add it to github. 14:49:35 Eric_hind: I'll check Matt's new process and make sure our comments go into the correct places. 14:50:26 Lisa: great - if Matt or Janina think it is an issue than great. If it's us not understanding then we'll learn how it works. 14:52:59 Lisa: I'd expect reference of accessibility considerations in an explainer or appendix that accompanies this doc. 14:53:20 ...she shared some edits made since Monday to our feedback document 14:55:23 q+ 14:55:29 ...Users needing more time and disorientation sections are new since Monday. 14:55:41 q- 14:58:11 Eric_hind: I'll create separate issues in github. December 18th will be our lat chance to add comments on our end before I add them to queue. 14:58:53 Eric_hind: I'll create separate issues in github. December 18th will be our last chance to add comments on our end before I add them to queue. 15:01:24 julierawe: to be clear on process, Eric will run our feedback by Janina before we create isues in github? 15:01:47 Lisa: at least for the definition of animation. It could be they have an explainer. 15:06:08 RRSAgent, publish minutes 15:06:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-coga-minutes.html Lisa 15:54:33 julierawe has joined #coga 15:54:40 zakim, start meeting 15:54:40 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:54:42 Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:54:44 zakim, clear agenda 15:54:44 agenda cleared 15:54:55 Meeting: COGA Guidance Subgroup Call 15:55:02 date: 11 dec 2025 15:55:13 present+ 15:55:22 chair: julierawe 15:56:09 agenda+ Rashmi and internationalization comments on "What to do" section of V2 of interactive-elements pattern 15:56:33 agenda+ "How it helps" section of V2 pattern about interactive-elements 15:58:48 Rashmi has joined #coga 16:01:15 present+ 16:07:14 LenB has joined #coga 16:07:14 presnet+ 16:07:15 present+ 16:07:18 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uAVRkNIgd3XlUIGQ6Gq-ZOcnwsFvIM9UJ1dNyHq8NSQ/edit?pli=1&tab=t.ht1sood1wqs8#heading=h.dlcxb6p8f4s2 16:07:24 zakim, next item 16:07:24 agendum 1 -- Rashmi and internationalization comments on "What to do" section of V2 of interactive-elements pattern -- taken up [from julierawe] 16:08:14 LenB has joined #coga 16:08:14 Rashmi has joined #coga 16:08:14 julierawe has joined #coga 16:08:14 Eric_hind has joined #coga 16:08:14 Lisa has joined #coga 16:08:14 jamesn has joined #coga 16:08:14 jcraig has joined #coga 16:10:00 LenB has joined #coga 16:10:00 Rashmi has joined #coga 16:10:00 julierawe has joined #coga 16:10:00 Eric_hind has joined #coga 16:10:00 Lisa has joined #coga 16:10:00 jamesn has joined #coga 16:10:00 jcraig has joined #coga 16:13:31 The group discussed the new internationalization comment about what order to show the examples. 16:13:41 julierawe: Can the desktop version show the "do" and "don't" example side by side? And stack them in mobile view? And the "warning" example comes last? 16:14:07 LenB: I think there is research indicating that people are most likely to remember the first example they see. 16:15:07 julierawe also tagged Rain in a margin comment asking if the order of the examples had come up during user research about the new template. 16:15:32 Rashmi asked in a margin comment about the illustration for the contact form and if it's too simple. 16:27:54 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uAVRkNIgd3XlUIGQ6Gq-ZOcnwsFvIM9UJ1dNyHq8NSQ/edit?pli=1&tab=t.ht1sood1wqs8 16:31:20 LenB has joined #coga 16:31:20 Rashmi has joined #coga 16:31:20 julierawe has joined #coga 16:31:20 Lisa has joined #coga 16:31:20 jamesn has joined #coga 16:31:20 jcraig has joined #coga 16:34:59 Rashmi added new illustrations at bottom of the tab. Julie will move them up, with the group's recommendations for captions, etc. 16:36:13 accordion with chevron https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/accordion/examples/accordion/ 16:42:50 present+ kirkwood 17:18:47 kirkwood_ has joined #COGA 17:21:03 The group discussed Rashmi's "good" example for an accordion, which uses chevron or caret that points down or up. 17:21:24 kirkwood_ has joined #COGA 17:21:59 We discussed whether to create a "Don't" example using "+" and "-" because the minus can be hard for users with low vision to see and also because the "+" can be used in other contexts to mean "add." 17:22:45 The group discussed how some places such as in the UK use +/- frequently for accordion drawers, so we want to steer clear of saying they are bad unless we have strong research saying they are bad for cognitive accessibility. 17:23:09 The group aligned on a "Don't" example that has no symbols to indicate these are drawers that can be opened. 17:24:34 The group also discussed the roll-back item in "What to do." How can we clarify what is meant in this item so it doesn't seem like we are requiring developers to maintain old versions, especially if they involve security gaps that are being addressed in the new version. 17:25:19 rrsagent, make minutes 17:25:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-coga-minutes.html julierawe 18:00:40 kirkwood_ has joined #COGA