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20:10:22 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
20:10:23 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ChrisCuellar
20:10:29 <ChrisCuellar> present+
20:10:49 <ChrisCuellar> present+ Matt_King
20:10:51 <ChrisCuellar> scribe+
20:11:23 <ChrisCuellar> meeting: December 11, 2025 Community Group Meeting
20:11:53 <ChrisCuellar> topic: Current status
20:12:09 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Ready to go to candidate: Checkbox Example (Two State) (candidate advancement blocked by app bug), Still working on first drafts of spinner and grid plans
20:12:14 <ChrisCuellar> present+ Isa
20:12:37 <ChrisCuellar> Isa: Spinner and grid should be ready by next week!
20:13:06 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: I'll have a short week next week because of vacation.
20:13:32 <ChrisCuellar> topic: Meeting schedule
20:14:35 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Last week we updated to a bi-weekly schedule with Thursday meetings. That will start in the new year. We will have a meeting next Weds on the 18th and then reconvene in the new year on Jan 8. Next automation subgroup meeting is TBD
20:14:47 <ChrisCuellar> topic: New release in the app
20:15:24 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: There's a lot of changes here. Hopefully some performance gains but still some bugs. Full changelog: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at-app/blob/development/CHANGELOG.md#1260-2025-12-11
20:15:39 <ChrisCuellar> present+ howard
20:16:02 <ChrisCuellar> howard: Some of the bugs have been fixed manually. Carmen will send email updates.
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20:16:18 <Joe_Humbert> present+
20:16:20 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Let's resolve them now if possible!
20:17:15 <ChrisCuellar> howard: For the checkbox finalization problem, it's a UI issue. The status in the queue doesn't include submitted state.
20:17:44 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: Do I need something different?
20:18:21 <ChrisCuellar> howard: No, I can just submit the unsubmitted results. It just looks like a minor user error. Do you want to review yourself, first.
20:19:00 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: Ok, I will review the test. I see all of the tests as being submitted, however.
20:20:42 <ChrisCuellar> ... Actually, I was looking at the wrong test. Ok, now I will submit the first test there.
20:21:01 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Ok, that seems to resolve the first big issue I reported.
20:21:11 <ChrisCuellar> howard: There's an issue that's filed on that.
20:23:29 <ChrisCuellar> ChrisCuellar: Maybe we can get rid of the submitted state altogether? That might resolve the UI issue.
20:24:09 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: That could work. OK, for the Voiceover issue. There's conflicts reported but no visible conflicts.
20:24:48 <ChrisCuellar> howard: This just looks like a data integrity issue. If you just resubmit the tests that should clear up the conflict reporting. This is just a residual problem.
20:25:13 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Ok, we'll try resubmitting to clear this up. I'll try that after the meeting.
20:25:51 <ChrisCuellar> ... Otherwise, there's a lot of awesome things in this release!
20:26:57 <ChrisCuellar> howard: The performance enhancements are probably the biggest thing. There's also various other enhancements, but hopefully the performance fixes will help everyone in this group.
20:27:09 <ChrisCuellar> topic: Running tests for Switch Example Using HTML Checkbox Input
20:27:55 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: We just have two things left here. We're waiting on Murray's results for JAWS. For NVDA, Joe needs to change untestable assertions to failing.
20:28:16 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: I changed that, but there are still conflicts being reported.
20:29:25 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: Actually, I only changed the untestables to failing in Voiceover. I still need to do this for NVDA actually.
20:30:03 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Ok, that resolves that, so this test plan will also be done soon.
20:31:18 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: Do I need to remove the negative side effects actually?
20:31:35 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Just mark the ones in question as "No Output"
20:33:23 <ChrisCuellar> Dean: I agree with Joe that the problem is that there is no response at all, not just missing output.
20:33:39 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: We need to explicitly say that the state of the switch did not change, then.
20:33:58 <ChrisCuellar> present+ jscholes
20:34:38 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: I'll double-check this later.
20:34:57 <ChrisCuellar> jscholes: I think the issue is that "ENTER" is not supported.
20:35:11 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: This might be a bug in the APG example actually.
20:35:44 <ChrisCuellar> ... This might be a bad test. Actually, we might need to remove ENTER from the test plan.
20:36:12 <ChrisCuellar> jscholes: APG states that ENTER is optional.
20:36:21 <ChrisCuellar> Isa: That's why we included it.
20:36:38 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Ok, let's remove that from the test plan, though that's a really confusing case.
20:38:04 <ChrisCuellar> jscholes: I don't like the inconsistencies here in the way that NVDA speaks the switch state.
20:38:33 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Let's change the test plan to remove ENTER. Yes, it's inconsistent but it's reflecting inconsistency in the APG.
20:39:01 <ChrisCuellar> jschole: This should only be removed in focus mode, to be clear.
20:39:34 <ChrisCuellar> s/jschole/jscholes
20:40:05 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Thank you, Joe and Dean for helping us catch this using the negative side effect reporting!
20:40:44 <ChrisCuellar> topic: Running test plan for Tabs with Automatic Activation
20:40:57 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: We'll check in with Hadi but skip for now.
20:41:04 <ChrisCuellar> topic: Auto-update report reviews
20:43:15 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Here's we need a lot more help from testers. You can view those test plans in the "Automated Update" tab.
20:43:34 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: I complete all the ones assigned to me, I believe.
20:43:51 <ChrisCuellar> ... I hope to complete all the JAWS test plans by next week.
20:44:48 <ChrisCuellar> ... I finished Toggle Button and Modal Dialog for VO, to be clear.
20:45:17 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: I might review the Toggle Button for VO results as well. There may be some "Untestables" in there.
20:48:46 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: I was seeing some non-reproducible characters after the content. I was seeing these in JAWS. Some of that content should still be there.
20:49:25 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: This seems like a JAWS bug in the AT-driver implementation.
20:50:40 <ChrisCuellar> ChrisCuellar: This should have been addressed but I will try and find the email chains where we discussed this with Vispero.
20:51:34 <ChrisCuellar> ... Let's leave that output in there for future bug-reporting.
20:51:57 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: Joe, how does that JAWS output look generally in comparison to historical test plan runs?
20:52:35 <ChrisCuellar> Joe_Humbert: It mostly looks ok, but there were some edge cases where the virtual cursor seemed to be off that took a lot of time. As if the bot run was failing.
20:53:07 <ChrisCuellar> ... In those cases, I did have to manually re-run the tests. It took a lot longer than just verification of the bot output.
20:53:38 <ChrisCuellar> ... In those re-run cases, everything was marked as "No output".
20:54:05 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: It seems like the bot should be able to detect that in itself.
20:55:11 <ChrisCuellar> ChrisCuellar: That would be cool, but it might be hard for the bot to actually do anything about the problem other than abort the run.
20:55:34 <ChrisCuellar> Matt_King: In the meantime, if we see something like that in the near future, let's just delete the run and start it over.
20:56:45 <ChrisCuellar> scribe+ Matt_King
20:59:22 <Matt_King> rrsagent, Make Minutes
20:59:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
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21:03:00 <Matt_King> zakim, end meeting
21:03:00 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ChrisCuellar, Matt_King, Isa, howard, Joe_Humbert, jscholes
21:03:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:03:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-aria-at-minutes.html Zakim
21:03:08 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Matt_King; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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21:03:17 <Matt_King> rrxagent, bye
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