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15:46:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/08-coga-irc
15:46:45 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:46:46 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:47:00 <julierawe> date: 08 dec 2025
15:47:06 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
15:47:08 <julierawe> present+
15:47:14 <julierawe> regrets+ Jan
15:47:23 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
15:47:23 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:47:41 <julierawe> agenda+ Holidays
15:48:18 <julierawe> agenda+ WCAG 3 subgroup participation survey - responses due December 15th
15:48:44 <julierawe> agenda+ WCAG 3 conformance discussion at tomorrow's AG meeting
15:49:17 <julierawe> agenda+ [Time-sensitive] COGA feedback on APA paper on CSS scroll-triggered animations
15:57:56 <julierawe> regrets+ charli
16:00:05 <Eric_hind> Eric_hind has joined #coga
16:00:09 <Eric_hind> present+
16:00:23 <Becca_Monteleone> Becca_Monteleone has joined #coga
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16:02:17 <Jennie_Delisi> Jennie_Delisi has joined #coga
16:02:21 <Jennie_Delisi> present+
16:02:42 <Jennie_Delisi> Apologies - will have to drop at 45 minutes after the hour and will miss next week
16:02:53 <julierawe> agenda+ Introducing new member Tayef Farrar
16:03:04 <tayef> present+
16:03:52 <Becca_Monteleone> Becca_Monteleone has joined #coga
16:03:57 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
16:04:12 <julierawe> scribe+ Becca_Monteleone
16:04:40 <johnkirkwood> johnkirkwood has joined #COGA
16:04:40 <julierawe> zakim, take up item 5
16:04:41 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Introducing new member Tayef Farrar -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:04:56 <Abi> Abi has joined #coga
16:05:00 <Abi> present+
16:05:24 <Jennie_Delisi> * Welcome Tayef!
16:05:32 <Becca_Monteleone> tayef: senior experience designer at aetna health and located in NY USA.
16:05:35 <Abi> Welcome Tayef!!
16:06:16 <Becca_Monteleone> @Eric and @Len are serving as COGA buddies to help new members orient
16:06:54 <LenB> LenB has joined #coga
16:06:57 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:06:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Holidays -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:07:13 <LenB> present+
16:08:14 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: no call Thursday, December 25; no call Thursday, January 1
16:08:36 <Jennie_Delisi> I am working both Mondays
16:08:37 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: should we have a call Monday December 22 or Monday December 29?
16:08:44 <Abi> I'm working both
16:08:48 <tayef> I am working both Mondays
16:08:52 <LenB> I'm not working Dec 29
16:08:53 <Eric_hind> I'm available
16:08:59 <Becca_Monteleone> I am not working 29 Dec
16:09:42 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: will confirm with Lisa to see if she can chair December 22
16:09:50 <johnkirkwood> present+
16:10:10 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:10:10 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- WCAG 3 subgroup participation survey - responses due December 15th -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:10:28 <julierawe> https://www.w3.org/wbs/35422/AGWGSubgroupParticipation_Jan_26/
16:11:07 <tayef> Yes, I'm familiar with AGWG and attended their first weekly meeting last Tue.
16:11:35 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: WCAG 3 subgroups have been on pause recently. Survey sent out today to ask about interest in participating in AG subgroups.
16:12:32 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: AG subgroups have changed recently, including "Text and Wording subgroup" which will include Plain Language, Text Appearance, and Text-to-Speech
16:13:23 <Jennie_Delisi> q+
16:13:30 <julierawe> ack Jennie_Delisi
16:13:37 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: "single Sense and Contrast" subgroup, "Sign Language" subgroup, "conformance" subgroup are new (featured at end of survey as items 8, 9, and 10)
16:14:18 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie_Delisi: has been part of structure subgroup, but may be more helpful in conformance group - can only do one - does Julie/COGA have a preference?
16:15:06 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: Rain has been active in layout and structure subgroup, so Jennie may be able to move to conformance for better COGA representation - will double check with Rain
16:15:48 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie_Delisi: if other COGA members can attend conformance meetings, that would be good, since Jennie will participate asynchronously
16:16:20 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: survey responses due December 15
16:16:46 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: LenB is one of leaders of text and wording subgroup, which has good COGA representation
16:16:48 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:16:48 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- WCAG 3 conformance discussion at tomorrow's AG meeting -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:16:59 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b9g5v5Hh_Z5lFRVl3hO0Q45amG7X7KVOgVbJA_m4we8/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.knr86j988vxi
16:17:18 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: tomorrow's AG meeting (11 ET) will be discussing early draft of conformance model
16:17:46 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: anyone is welcome to attend to learn more
16:18:08 <Becca_Monteleone> johnkirkwood: text and wording subgroup had different name previously?
16:18:28 <LenB> it used to be "Text Appearance" and then "Plain language, Consistency, and Familiarity (Formerly titled “Simplified Written Content”)"
16:18:45 <Becca_Monteleone> Thanks, LenB!
16:19:33 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:19:33 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- [Time-sensitive] COGA feedback on APA paper on CSS scroll-triggered animations -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:20:48 <julierawe> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-animations-2/#timeline-triggers
16:21:07 <tiffanyburtin> tiffanyburtin has joined #coga
16:21:18 <tiffanyburtin> present+
16:21:27 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: coming from Accessibility Platforms Architecture (APA) group that does horizontal reviews - meets Wednesdays. Reviews W3C publications for accessibility issues and concerns
16:22:07 <tiffanyburtin> tiffanyburtin has joined #coga
16:22:30 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: APA is very Github-oriented; COGA working on improving participation, since Github poses some participation barriers
16:23:05 <Eric_hind> https://github.com/explainers-by-googlers/scroll-triggered-animations/blob/main/README.md#proposed-solution
16:24:37 <julierawe> q+
16:24:39 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: CSS team proposing animation-triggers and timeline-triggers rather than activation through Java Script. Requesting feedback on accessibility considerations.
16:24:50 <Eric_hind> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-animations-2/#timeline-triggers
16:25:31 <Jennie_Delisi> q+
16:25:36 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: requesting feedback on 5.2 Timeline Triggers
16:25:46 <tiffanyburtin> Q+
16:25:57 <julierawe> ack julierawe
16:26:23 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: time-sensitive - would like to have it reviewed for feedback ASAP
16:26:40 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: no hard deadline, but next few weeks
16:26:43 <julierawe> ack Jennie_Delisi
16:26:46 <Jennie_Delisi> Text to speech tools - interrupt reading? availability of animation to be read
16:26:46 <Jennie_Delisi> Visuals - ability to pause - will the pause stop hide be considered?
16:27:40 <LenB> LenB has joined #coga
16:27:49 <julierawe> q+
16:28:15 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie_Delisi: sound and dizziness issues need to be considered as well
16:28:18 <julierawe> ack tiffanyburtin
16:29:31 <Becca_Monteleone> Tiffanyburtin: vestibular and motion sensitive users - need for reduced motion options, even with pause-stop-hide options. Need choice in appearance
16:29:35 <julierawe> ack julierawe
16:30:08 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: does current draft have a no-motion browser-level preference?
16:30:20 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: will check, but doesn't believe so
16:30:42 <Becca_Monteleone> Julierawe: can send a Google Doc to COGA to share thoughts
16:31:00 <LenB> q+
16:31:15 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: APA most concerned with 5.2 (timelines), but feedback on other areas welcome
16:32:07 <Jennie_Delisi> q?
16:32:15 <julierawe> ack LenB
16:34:23 <Becca_Monteleone> LenB: browser-level reduced motion still often requires publisher to identify in CSS what that reduced motion state is - is that addressed or defined in the document?
16:35:17 <Jennie_Delisi> q+
16:35:52 <julierawe> ack Jennie_Delisi
16:36:21 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie_Delisi: what is considered the elements of an animation? Visual only? Visual with sound?
16:36:36 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_Hind: believe that is defined in other documentation
16:37:15 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie_Delisi: possible to add a glossary or link to those definitions in this document? For term "animation" specifically
16:37:46 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u3L80Hhg8rUwQVJcEihGP2kaRYcUzm74Bh-lXIOB8os/edit?tab=t.0
16:42:28 <Jennie_Delisi> * language like risk, harm...or potential risks and harm
16:43:02 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: need for note that explains that if you don't include reduced motion options, there are consequences for users. Are there places in this draft that talk about user needs or why these options are important?
16:43:16 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_hind: don't believe so in the current draft
16:46:06 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie_Delisi: AG is thinking through possible future states - is that true for this as well? If so, need to consider audio, VR, etc
16:46:23 <Jennie_Delisi> * Have to drop. Talk to everyone in 2 weeks.
16:49:19 <Becca_Monteleone> tiffanyburtin: re: choice in appearance; if user choice is available, choosing not to have extra motion, paralax shifting, etc., turning it off completely is an extremely useful option. If reduced motion is set at browser level, but the site doesn't listen, that still causes problems. Need user preference to turn off completely (e.g., turn off Java
16:49:19 <Becca_Monteleone> Script, but need user to know if it's the Java script that's causing the animation)
16:50:01 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: is the need for choice in appearance in addition to browser-level reduced motion?
16:50:34 <Becca_Monteleone> tiffanyburtin: could be a separate option. Especially thinking through future technologies
16:51:30 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: seems like there needs to be a section in document that emphasizes potential harm for users
16:51:38 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: and future-proofing
16:53:17 <Becca_Monteleone> Eric_hind: reiterate that current version does not address accessibility
16:53:41 <Becca_Monteleone> tiffanyburtin: Not fully vetted/ read yet but cybersickness seems to be a new term in addition to vestibular: https://balanceanddizziness.org/disorders/vestibular-disorders/motion-and-cyber-sickness/#:~:text=Cyber%20sickness%20is%20a%20subset,up%20by%20robust%20scientific%20evidence.
16:54:48 <julierawe> q?
16:54:55 <Becca_Monteleone> julierawe: please supply feedback to Google Doc by December 19; Eric will deliver that feedback to APA
16:55:27 <julierawe> action item: Julie will share google doc for COGA members to add feedback by end-of-day December 18th
16:55:47 <julierawe> action item: Eric will be in charge github issues based on our feedback
16:58:55 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/08-coga-minutes.html julierawe
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