IRC log of rdf-star on 2025-12-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:53:37 [RRSAgent]

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16:53:41 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-irc

16:53:41 [Zakim]

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16:54:37 [TallTed]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e5234c80-4c06-4c6b-af43-c78a1dbd390a/20251204T120000/

16:54:37 [TallTed]

meeting: RDF & SPARQL WG

16:54:37 [agendabot]

clear agenda

16:54:37 [agendabot]

agenda+ Approval of last week’s minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/11/20-rdf-star-minutes.html

16:54:37 [agendabot]

agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3

16:54:37 [agendabot]

agenda+ Horizontal Reviews Tracking -> 3 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/254 -> 4 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/164 -> 5 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/issues/79

16:54:39 [agendabot]

agenda+ Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8

16:54:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed

16:55:31 [AndyS]

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16:56:08 [TallTed]

previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/11/20-rdf-star-minutes.html

16:56:08 [TallTed]

next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-rdf-star-minutes.html

16:58:15 [Dominik_T7]

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16:59:27 [TallTed]

present+

16:59:43 [niklasl]

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16:59:56 [j22]

present+

17:00:00 [Dominik_T7]

present+

17:00:15 [gtw]

present+

17:00:38 [ora]

ora has joined #rdf-star

17:02:02 [Souri]

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17:02:07 [Souri]

present+

17:02:52 [lisp]

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17:03:05 [j22]

TallTed I can probably scribe today

17:03:14 [ora]

present+

17:03:15 [ora]

chair+

17:03:18 [niklasl]

present+

17:03:20 [tl]

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17:03:22 [j22]

Or at least take notes

17:03:24 [lisp]

present+

17:03:33 [enrico]

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17:03:35 [tl]

present+

17:03:36 [ktk]

present+

17:03:41 [ktk]

regrets+ olaf

17:03:46 [enrico]

Present+

17:04:00 [Dominik_T7]

present+

17:04:08 [AndyS]

present+

17:04:31 [j22]

ScribeNick: j22

17:04:47 [pfps]

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17:04:57 [pfps]

present+

17:04:58 [j22]

Scribe: Jerven Bolleman

17:04:58 [ktk]

Zakim, open item 1

17:04:58 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Approval of last week’s minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/11/20-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]

17:05:55 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed

17:06:04 [ora]

PROPOSAL: Approve minutes from two weeks ago

17:06:13 [niklasl]

+1

17:06:14 [pfps]

+1

17:06:14 [ktk]

+1

17:06:16 [AndyS]

+1

17:06:18 [lisp]

+1

17:06:18 [gtw]

+1

17:06:19 [ora]

0

17:06:23 [tl]

+1

17:06:24 [Dominik_T7]

+1

17:06:27 [TallTed]

+1

17:06:28 [Souri]

+1

17:06:29 [pchampin]

+1

17:06:31 [j22]

0

17:06:33 [TallTed]

s/TallTed I can probably scribe today//

17:06:33 [TallTed]

s/Or at least take notes//

17:06:50 [ora]

RESOLVED: Approve minutes from two weeks ago

17:06:57 [enrico]

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17:06:59 [ktk]

Zakim, next item

17:06:59 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]

17:07:08 [enrico]

Present*

17:07:38 [TallTed]

s/Present*/present+/

17:07:44 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed

17:07:50 [pchampin]

q+

17:07:51 [doerthe]

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17:07:59 [doerthe]

present+

17:08:21 [ktk]

ack pchampin

17:08:35 [TallTed]

s/^0$/<j22> 0

17:08:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed

17:08:52 [doerthe]

present+

17:09:55 [j22]

pchampin: is setting echidna, there where questions about why this a note instead of rec. pchampin wrote an introduction that is now a PR. This PR has been sent to the team, this might need merging before permision to publish is granted

17:10:26 [j22]

niklasl: no progress on issue #150

17:10:27 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/150 -> Action 150 Create note on triple term owlification (on niklasl) due 2025-03-07

17:10:34 [ktk]

Zakim, next item

17:10:34 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- Horizontal Reviews Tracking -> 3 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/254 -> 4 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/164 -> 5

17:10:36 [Zakim]

... https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/issues/79 -- taken up [from agendabot]

17:12:00 [pfps]

so how we just wait?

17:12:35 [j22]

Tpt: wrote a script to help submit 17+ documents. Some have been submitted as well. Each has an issue. pchampin: we don't need now to go through them right now. Nothing has gone through yet.

17:14:35 [ktk]

s/Tpt:/ktk:/

17:15:33 [pchampin]

ACTION: pchampin to import language from rdf-canon into rdf-concepts about the complexity of graph processing

17:15:40 [gb]

Created -> action #184 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/184

17:17:32 [j22]

pchampin: while little changed regarding internationalization, last review was 10 years ago and viewpoints might have changed.

17:18:21 [ktk]

Zakim, next item

17:18:21 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8 -- taken up [from agendabot]

17:19:57 [TallTed]

q+

17:20:26 [ora]

ack TallTed

17:20:49 [pchampin]

q+

17:20:53 [j22]

afs: asks if denial of service attacks is more of a concern for security and privacy affairs for all standards or if this is specific for RDF1.2/SPARQL. pchampin: yes more consideration to security normal now (and that is a good thing)

17:21:06 [ora]

ack pchampin

17:21:23 [AndyS]

s/afs:/AndyS:/

17:22:02 [enrico]

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17:22:08 [enrico]

Present+

17:22:20 [pfps]

q+

17:22:47 [ora]

ack pfps

17:22:58 [j22]

future note: ask for (draft) security review earlier in the process

17:23:32 [j22]

pfps: notes that this might be risky in its own way as well.

17:23:55 [j22]

ora: hopes that this would at least catch obvious (to security team) issues earlier.

17:24:03 [pchampin]

and also it is sometimes easier to work incrementally for them

17:24:33 [j22]

TallTed: these are notes, for implementers and users to concern. Security is a general consideration section

17:25:05 [j22]

topic: profile parameter

17:25:17 [pchampin]

q+

17:25:20 [j22]

topic:profile parameter

17:25:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed

17:25:55 [ora]

ack pchampin

17:25:59 [j22]

pchampin: has not paid much attention to this PR recently. Has work outstanding and what needs to be done.

17:26:09 [TallTed]

s/concern. Security/consider. Security/

17:26:19 [j22]

This was about https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/pull/76

17:26:20 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/pull/76 -> Pull Request 76 Add profile parameter (by pchampin) [ms:CR]

17:27:30 [j22]

topic:https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248

17:27:30 [gb]

s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248|-">https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248|-> Issue 248 Resolve "Editor's notes" (by afs) [ms:CR] https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248

17:28:19 [j22]

Is the editors note about how to reference 1.2 test cases. How to note in the concepts document that these test cases exists and can be used.

17:28:48 [j22]

AndyS: it should be reasonable to point to the suite of documents of conformance tests

17:29:07 [j22]

AndyS: 1.1. did not have a link to any tests

17:30:19 [pchampin]

sounds reasonable

17:30:28 [j22]

ACTION: AndyS PR to just remove the note referencing 1.2 test cases.

17:30:29 [gb]

Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe AndyS PR is not a valid user for w3c/rdf-star-wg?

17:30:44 [j22]

ACTION: AndyS: PR to just remove the note referencing 1.2 test cases.

17:30:46 [gb]

Created -> action #185 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/185

17:31:45 [j22]

TOPIC: Recognizing members of the task force, decided to do so at the end

17:32:10 [j22]

unstar is supposed to have link to the interop document

17:32:54 [pchampin]

s/unstar/the note about "unstar"

17:34:11 [ktk]

https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/11

17:34:12 [j22]

TOPIC: issues that can be closed

17:35:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed

17:35:14 [TallTed]

s/topic: profile parameter//

17:36:15 [j22]

Issue #78 and #82 can be closed

17:36:16 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/78 -> CLOSED Action 78 investigate hiccups in github actions (on pchampin) due 27 Jul 2023

17:36:16 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/82 -> CLOSED Action 82 formulate use case on language tag canonicalization (on gkellogg) due 2023-08-17

17:36:28 [j22]

while #46 remains open

17:36:29 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/46 -> Issue 46 Proposal: rename errata-related labels in all repositories (by pchampin)

17:36:40 [j22]

topic: end of year schedule

17:37:24 [j22]

ora: propsal to skip Thursday 25th and january 1st

17:38:13 [j22]

skipping accepted

17:38:20 [j22]

skipping accepted as no objections

17:38:21 [AndyS]

q+

17:38:26 [ora]

ack AndyS

17:39:03 [j22]

AndyS: are we ok for the 18th? ora: and ktk: will be available.

17:39:20 [j22]

18th will not be skipped (no one asked to)

17:39:23 [AndyS]

q+

17:39:27 [ora]

ack AndyS

17:39:28 [pchampin]

q+

17:40:57 [j22]

topic: AndyS: would like to have a SPARQL-TF meeting and hopes to have a meeting soon. Especially around critical issues. ora: if needed issues can be brought to the rdf-wg. AndyS issues that are significantly important should be done by wg.

17:41:45 [ora]

ack pchampin

17:41:47 [j22]

ora: hopes that the sparql-tf brings things to wg that are easily decidable for the wg. AndyS hopes more people join tf meetings for indepth discussions

17:42:11 [pchampin]

topic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-interop/issues/2

17:42:11 [gb]

s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-interop/issues/2|-">https://github.com/w3c/rdf-interop/issues/2|-> Issue 2 Decide names and IRIs for type and constituent properties of basic-encoded triple terms (by niklasl) https://github.com/w3c/rdf-interop/issues/2

17:43:27 [j22]

pchampin would like to have the groups opion if these "unstar" vocabulary terms should be outside of the rdf namespace.

17:43:35 [AndyS]

See also PR on rdf.ttl, rdfs.ttl : https://github.com/w3c/rdf-schema/pull/70

17:43:36 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/rdf-schema/pull/70 -> Pull Request 70 Define terms for basic RDF 1.2 (by niklasl)

17:43:44 [j22]

pchampin: this vocabulary should not be used in the wild

17:43:52 [pfps]

q+

17:44:10 [ora]

ack pfps

17:44:12 [j22]

pchampin: notion of reserved namespace might be contriversial.

17:45:24 [ktk]

Zakim, draft minutes

17:45:24 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'draft minutes', ktk

17:45:27 [pfps]

q+

17:45:32 [pfps]

q-

17:45:33 [j22]

pfps: this will show up in the wild, as people might have run the algorithm and then publish the data. AndyS notes that downcasting is good. Problem might be accidental inclusion in RDF1.2-full graphs, that can lead to issues

17:45:37 [pchampin]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

17:45:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin

17:46:00 [pchampin]

q+

17:46:23 [j22]

ora: can't protect people from their own mistakes. we can help people notice them more easily

17:46:28 [ora]

ack pchampin

17:46:32 [pfps]

q+

17:47:38 [j22]

pchampin: Any use of the rdf-basic properties should highlight to users that the vocabulary is intended to be used to create rdf-full.

17:47:42 [niklasl]

q+

17:47:44 [ora]

ack pfps

17:48:19 [j22]

niklasl: prefers not to have this split.

17:48:34 [niklasl]

s/niklasl:/pfps:/

17:48:43 [ora]

ack niklasl

17:49:02 [ktk]

s/there where/there were/

17:49:02 [ktk]

s/permision/permission/

17:49:02 [ktk]

s/propsal/proposal/

17:49:02 [ktk]

s/opion/opinion/

17:49:02 [ktk]

s/contriversial/controversial/

17:49:05 [ktk]

s/indepth/in-depth/

17:49:07 [ktk]

s/january/January/

17:49:29 [AndyS]

q+

17:49:33 [ora]

ack AndyS

17:49:37 [j22]

niklasl: separation might mean that editors and tools do not show these per default.

17:50:04 [j22]

AndyS if note is not normative, then it does not need to go into the RDF namespace

17:51:18 [niklasl]

q+

17:51:20 [j22]

There is an example of a non-normative term in the rdf namespace today.

17:51:20 [j22]

ora: do we need to vote on this?

17:51:25 [ora]

ack niklasl

17:51:32 [tl]

strawpoll maybe?

17:52:01 [j22]

niklasl did anyone have issues with the similar JSON-LD terms?

17:52:10 [ora]

STRAWPOLL: Use separate namespace for triple-term component properties

17:52:24 [ora]

0

17:52:25 [tl]

-1

17:52:27 [pfps]

-1

17:52:27 [enrico]

+0

17:52:29 [doerthe]

0

17:52:29 [lisp]

-1

17:52:31 [Souri]

0

17:52:32 [ktk]

0

17:52:33 [AndyS]

+0

17:52:34 [j22]

-1

17:52:35 [gtw]

+0

17:52:36 [pchampin]

s/component properties/component properties defined in rdf-interop

17:52:38 [pchampin]

+1

17:52:39 [Dominik_T7]

0

17:52:48 [AndyS]

q+

17:52:49 [niklasl]

+0.1

17:53:16 [ora]

ack AndyS

17:54:04 [j22]

AndyS notes that the given example of non-normative use in rdf namespace is not accurate, it is normative

17:55:37 [pchampin]

RRSAgent, make minutes

17:55:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin

17:57:17 [pchampin]

s/topic: profile parameter/subtopic: profile parameter

17:58:10 [pchampin]

i/would like to have a SPARQL-TF/topic: AOB

17:58:21 [pchampin]

s/topic: AndyS:/AndyS:

17:58:27 [pchampin]

RRSAgent, make minutes

17:58:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin

17:59:19 [pchampin]

s/topic: Issue 2 D/subtopic: Issue 2 D

17:59:24 [pchampin]

RRSAgent, make minutes

17:59:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin

18:00:29 [pchampin]

RRSAgent, bye

18:00:29 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-actions.rdf :

18:00:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: pchampin to import language from rdf-canon into rdf-concepts about the complexity of graph processing [1]

18:00:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-irc#T17-15-33

18:00:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS PR to just remove the note referencing 1.2 test cases. [2]

18:00:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-irc#T17-30-28

18:00:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS: PR to just remove the note referencing 1.2 test cases. [3]

18:00:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-irc#T17-30-44