16:53:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:53:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-irc
16:53:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-star
16:54:37 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e5234c80-4c06-4c6b-af43-c78a1dbd390a/20251204T120000/
16:54:37 <TallTed> meeting: RDF & SPARQL WG
16:54:37 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:54:37 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of last week’s minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/11/20-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:54:37 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:54:37 <agendabot> agenda+ Horizontal Reviews Tracking -> 3 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/254 -> 4 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/164 -> 5 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/issues/79
16:54:39 <agendabot> agenda+ Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8
16:54:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:55:31 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-star
16:56:08 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/11/20-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:56:08 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-rdf-star-minutes.html
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16:59:27 <TallTed> present+
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16:59:56 <j22> present+
17:00:00 <Dominik_T7> present+
17:00:15 <gtw> present+
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17:02:07 <Souri> present+
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17:03:05 <j22> TallTed I can probably scribe today
17:03:14 <ora> present+
17:03:15 <ora> chair+
17:03:18 <niklasl> present+
17:03:20 <tl> tl has joined #rdf-star
17:03:22 <j22> Or at least take notes
17:03:24 <lisp> present+
17:03:33 <enrico> enrico has joined #rdf-star
17:03:35 <tl> present+
17:03:36 <ktk> present+
17:03:41 <ktk> regrets+ olaf
17:03:46 <enrico> Present+
17:04:00 <Dominik_T7> present+
17:04:08 <AndyS> present+
17:04:31 <j22> ScribeNick: j22
17:04:47 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-star
17:04:57 <pfps> present+
17:04:58 <j22> Scribe: Jerven Bolleman
17:04:58 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
17:04:58 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of last week’s minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/11/20-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:05:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:06:04 <ora> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes from two weeks ago
17:06:13 <niklasl> +1
17:06:14 <pfps> +1
17:06:14 <ktk> +1
17:06:16 <AndyS> +1
17:06:18 <lisp> +1
17:06:18 <gtw> +1
17:06:19 <ora> 0
17:06:23 <tl> +1
17:06:24 <Dominik_T7> +1
17:06:27 <TallTed> +1
17:06:28 <Souri> +1
17:06:29 <pchampin> +1
17:06:31 <j22> <j22> 0
17:06:33 <TallTed> s/TallTed I can probably scribe today//
17:06:33 <TallTed> s/Or at least take notes//
17:06:50 <ora> RESOLVED: Approve minutes from two weeks ago
17:06:57 <enrico> enrico has joined #rdf-star
17:06:59 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:06:59 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:07:08 <enrico> Present*
17:07:38 <TallTed> s/Present*/present+/
17:07:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:07:50 <pchampin> q+
17:07:51 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
17:07:59 <doerthe> present+
17:08:21 <ktk> ack pchampin
17:08:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:08:52 <doerthe> present+
17:09:55 <j22> pchampin: is setting echidna, there where questions about why this a note instead of rec. pchampin wrote an introduction that is now a PR. This PR has been sent to the team, this might need merging before permision to publish is granted
17:10:26 <j22> niklasl: no progress on issue #150
17:10:27 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/150 -> Action 150 Create note on triple term owlification (on niklasl) due 2025-03-07
17:10:34 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:10:34 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Horizontal Reviews Tracking -> 3 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/254 -> 4 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/164 -> 5
17:10:36 <Zakim> ... https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/issues/79 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:12:00 <pfps> so how we just wait?
17:12:35 <j22> Tpt: wrote a script to help submit 17+ documents. Some have been submitted as well. Each has an issue. pchampin: we don't need now to go through them right now. Nothing has gone through yet.
17:14:35 <ktk> s/Tpt:/ktk:/
17:15:33 <pchampin> ACTION: pchampin to import language from rdf-canon into rdf-concepts about the complexity of graph processing
17:15:40 <gb> Created -> action #184 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/184
17:17:32 <j22> pchampin: while little changed regarding internationalization, last review was 10 years ago and viewpoints might have changed.
17:18:21 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:18:21 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:19:57 <TallTed> q+
17:20:26 <ora> ack TallTed
17:20:49 <pchampin> q+
17:20:53 <j22> afs: asks if denial of service attacks is more of a concern for security and privacy affairs for all standards or if this is specific for RDF1.2/SPARQL. pchampin: yes more consideration to security normal now (and that is a good thing)
17:21:06 <ora> ack pchampin
17:21:23 <AndyS> s/afs:/AndyS:/
17:22:02 <enrico> enrico has joined #rdf-star
17:22:08 <enrico> Present+
17:22:20 <pfps> q+
17:22:47 <ora> ack pfps
17:22:58 <j22> future note: ask for (draft) security review earlier in the process
17:23:32 <j22> pfps: notes that this might be risky in its own way as well.
17:23:55 <j22> ora: hopes that this would at least catch obvious (to security team) issues earlier.
17:24:03 <pchampin> and also it is sometimes easier to work incrementally for them
17:24:33 <j22> TallTed: these are notes, for implementers and users to concern. Security is a general consideration section
17:25:05 <j22> subtopic: profile parameter
17:26:19 <j22> This is about https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/pull/76
17:26:20 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/pull/76 -> Pull Request 76 Add profile parameter (by pchampin) [ms:CR]
17:25:17 <pchampin> q+
17:25:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:25:55 <ora> ack pchampin
17:25:59 <j22> pchampin: has not paid much attention to this PR recently. Has work outstanding and what needs to be done.
17:26:09 <TallTed> s/concern. Security/consider. Security/
17:27:30 <j22> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248
17:27:30 <gb> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248|-> Issue 248 Resolve "Editor's notes" (by afs) [ms:CR] https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248
17:28:19 <j22> Is the editors note about how to reference 1.2 test cases. How to note in the concepts document that these test cases exists and can be used.
17:28:48 <j22> AndyS: it should be reasonable to point to the suite of documents of conformance tests
17:29:07 <j22> AndyS: 1.1. did not have a link to any tests
17:30:19 <pchampin> sounds reasonable
17:30:44 <j22> ACTION: AndyS: PR to just remove the note referencing 1.2 test cases.
17:30:46 <gb> Created -> action #185 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/185
17:31:45 <j22> Recognizing members of the task force, decided to do so at the end
17:32:10 <j22> unstar is supposed to have  link to the interop document
17:32:54 <pchampin> s/unstar/the note about "unstar"
17:34:11 <ktk> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/11
17:34:12 <j22> TOPIC: issues that can be closed
17:35:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:36:15 <j22> Issue w3c/rdf-concepts#79 , w3c/rdf-n-triples#78 and w3c/rdf-n-quads#82 can be closed
17:36:28 <j22> while w3c/rdf-concepts#46 remains open
17:36:29 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/46 -> Issue 46 Proposal: rename errata-related labels in all repositories (by pchampin)
17:36:40 <j22> topic: end of year schedule
17:37:24 <j22> ora: propsal to skip Thursday 25th and january 1st
17:38:13 <j22> skipping accepted
17:38:20 <j22> skipping accepted as no objections
17:38:21 <AndyS> q+
17:38:26 <ora> ack AndyS
17:39:03 <j22> AndyS: are we ok for the 18th? ora: and ktk: will be available.
17:39:20 <j22> 18th will not be skipped (no one asked to)
17:39:23 <AndyS> q+
17:39:27 <ora> ack AndyS
17:39:28 <pchampin> q+
17:40:57 <j22> topic: AndyS: would like to have a SPARQL-TF meeting and hopes to have a meeting soon. Especially around critical issues. ora: if needed issues can be brought to the rdf-wg. AndyS issues that are significantly important should be done by wg.
17:41:45 <ora> ack pchampin
17:41:47 <j22> ora: hopes that the sparql-tf brings things to wg that are easily decidable for the wg. AndyS hopes more people join tf meetings for indepth discussions
17:42:11 <pchampin> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-interop/issues/2
17:42:11 <gb> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-interop/issues/2|-> Issue 2 Decide names and IRIs for type and constituent properties of basic-encoded triple terms (by niklasl) https://github.com/w3c/rdf-interop/issues/2
17:43:27 <j22> pchampin would like to have the groups opion if these "unstar" vocabulary terms should be outside of the rdf namespace.
17:43:35 <AndyS> See also PR on rdf.ttl, rdfs.ttl : https://github.com/w3c/rdf-schema/pull/70
17:43:36 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-schema/pull/70 -> Pull Request 70 Define terms for basic RDF 1.2 (by niklasl)
17:43:44 <j22> pchampin: this vocabulary should not be used in the wild
17:43:52 <pfps> q+
17:44:10 <ora> ack pfps
17:44:12 <j22> pchampin: notion of reserved namespace might be contriversial.
17:45:24 <ktk> Zakim, draft minutes
17:45:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', ktk
17:45:27 <pfps> q+
17:45:32 <pfps> q-
17:45:33 <j22> pfps: this will show up in the wild, as people might have run the algorithm and  then publish the data. AndyS notes that downcasting is good. Problem might be accidental inclusion in RDF1.2-full graphs, that can lead to issues
17:45:37 <pchampin> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:45:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:46:00 <pchampin> q+
17:46:23 <j22> ora: can't protect people from their own mistakes. we can help people notice them more easily
17:46:28 <ora> ack pchampin
17:46:32 <pfps> q+
17:47:38 <j22> pchampin: Any use of the rdf-basic properties should highlight to users that the vocabulary is intended to be used to create rdf-full.
17:47:42 <niklasl> q+
17:47:44 <ora> ack pfps
17:48:19 <j22> niklasl: prefers not to have this split.
17:48:34 <niklasl> s/niklasl:/pfps:/
17:48:43 <ora> ack niklasl
17:49:02 <ktk> s/there where/there were/
17:49:02 <ktk> s/permision/permission/
17:49:02 <ktk> s/propsal/proposal/
17:49:02 <ktk> s/opion/opinion/
17:49:02 <ktk> s/contriversial/controversial/
17:49:05 <ktk> s/indepth/in-depth/
17:49:07 <ktk> s/january/January/
17:49:29 <AndyS> q+
17:49:33 <ora> ack AndyS
17:49:37 <j22> niklasl: separation might mean that editors and tools do not show these per default.
17:50:04 <j22> AndyS if note is not normative, then it does not need to go into the RDF namespace
17:51:18 <niklasl> q+
17:51:20 <j22> There is an example of a non-normative term in the rdf namespace today.
17:51:20 <j22> ora: do we need to vote on this?
17:51:25 <ora> ack niklasl
17:51:32 <tl> strawpoll maybe?
17:52:01 <j22> niklasl did anyone have issues with the similar JSON-LD terms?
17:52:10 <ora> STRAWPOLL: Use separate namespace for triple-term component properties
17:52:24 <ora> 0
17:52:25 <tl> -1
17:52:27 <pfps> -1
17:52:27 <enrico> +0
17:52:29 <doerthe> 0
17:52:29 <lisp> -1
17:52:31 <Souri> 0
17:52:32 <ktk> 0
17:52:33 <AndyS> +0
17:52:34 <j22> -1
17:52:35 <gtw> +0
17:52:36 <pchampin> s/component properties/component properties defined in rdf-interop
17:52:38 <pchampin> +1
17:52:39 <Dominik_T7> 0
17:52:48 <AndyS> q+
17:52:49 <niklasl> +0.1
17:53:16 <ora> ack AndyS
17:54:04 <j22> AndyS notes that the given example of non-normative use in rdf namespace is not accurate, it is normative
17:55:37 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:55:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:58:10 <pchampin> i/would like to have a SPARQL-TF/topic: AOB
17:58:21 <pchampin> s/topic: AndyS:/AndyS:
17:58:27 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:58:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:59:24 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:59:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
18:00:29 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
18:00:29 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
18:00:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pchampin to import language from rdf-canon into rdf-concepts about the complexity of graph processing [1]
18:00:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-irc#T17-15-33
18:00:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS: PR to just remove the note referencing 1.2 test cases. [3]
18:00:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-rdf-star-irc#T17-30-44