14:42:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:42:35 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-i18n-irc
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14:42:52 <addison> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:43:01 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips, Joel Sahleen
14:43:13 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9449974b-72da-42a3-988a-1ccae4c25616/20251204T150000/
14:43:13 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:43:13 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
14:43:13 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
14:43:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
14:43:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Review RADAR Review
14:43:18 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
14:43:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:43:24 <agendabot> agenda+ HTML Ruby Markup Extension Spec
14:43:24 <agendabot> agenda+ Sustainable Web Issue 170
14:43:26 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
14:53:20 <addison> agenda+ HTML Ruby Extensions tracker issues
14:53:47 <jsahleen> jsahleen has joined #i18n
14:55:48 <jsahleen> agenda?
14:56:33 <addison> present+ Addison, Joel, Florian
14:57:21 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
14:59:01 <David> David has joined #i18n
14:59:12 <addison> present+ JcK
15:00:17 <jsahleen> present+ jsahleen
15:00:45 <addison> present+ Eemeli
15:01:30 <addison> present+ Fuqiao
15:01:43 <xfq> RRSAgent, make log public
15:01:45 <xfq> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:01:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:04:37 <addison> present+ David, Atsushi
15:05:20 <atsushi> atsushi has joined #i18n
15:05:40 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:05:40 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:05:43 <addison> agenda?
15:05:43 <jsahleen> agenda?
15:05:46 <xfq> scribe+
15:05:56 <jsahleen> Zakim take up item1
15:06:15 <jsahleen> Zakim, take up item1
15:06:15 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:06:29 <addison> present+ Bert
15:06:58 <jsahleen> Zakim, take up item 2
15:06:58 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:07:06 <jsahleen> #199
15:07:06 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/199 -> Action 199  contact florian about ruby extension spec status and invite to next telecon (on aphillips) due 2025-11-27
15:07:16 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues
15:07:22 <jsahleen> #198
15:07:22 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/198 -> Action 198  Remind everyone to read https://github.com/w3c/sustainableweb-wsg/issues/170 (on aphillips, jsahleen, xfq, r12a, bert-github) due 2025-11-27
15:07:26 <addison> close #1999
15:07:26 <gb> Issue #1999 not found
15:07:29 <addison> close #199
15:07:31 <gb> Closed -> issue #199 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/199
15:07:40 <jsahleen> #197
15:07:41 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/197 -> Action 197 rename the repo and shortname and publish ruby accessibility document as a first draft note (on xfq, himorin) due 2025-11-18
15:08:42 <jsahleen> #196
15:08:43 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/196 -> Action 196  remind @duerst to  create a list of gaps in URL standard (on aphillips, duerst) due 2025-11-17
15:08:50 <addison> close #198
15:08:52 <gb> Closed -> issue #198 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/198
15:08:57 <jsahleen> #189
15:08:58 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/189 -> Action 189  follow up with shane carr about ecma repo automation (on aphillips) due 2025-10-23
15:10:09 <xfq> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2025Aug/0000.html
15:10:12 <xfq> eemeli ^
15:10:24 <jsahleen> #187
15:10:25 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/187 -> Action 187  ping GOOG again for participation (on aphillips) due 2025-10-16
15:11:14 <jsahleen> #185
15:11:14 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/185 -> Action 185  follow up with PLH on automating TC39 repos (on aphillips) due 2025-10-02
15:11:26 <jsahleen> #136
15:11:26 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/136 -> Issue 136 follow up on XML errata (by aphillips) [task]
15:12:05 <jsahleen> #135
15:12:06 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135 -> Action 135  follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17
15:12:09 <jsahleen> #33
15:12:10 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)
15:12:22 <jsahleen> #7
15:12:23 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023
15:12:25 <xfq> related to XML errata: https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-i18n-minutes.html#9bc9
15:12:44 <jsahleen> #4
15:12:45 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023
15:13:01 <jsahleen> Zakim, take up item 3
15:13:01 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:13:17 <xfq> q+
15:14:03 <xfq> eemeli: we now have eht explainer for the message resources in the i18n-discuss repo
15:14:17 <xfq> ... should we have this tracked somehow?
15:14:27 <xfq> s/eht/the/
15:14:38 <xfq> addison: we need to figure out what we're going to produce
15:15:01 <xfq> ... explainer, formal spec, note?
15:15:23 <xfq> eemeli: I'm really looking forward to getting out of this is a spec
15:15:33 <xfq> ... we've signed up to incubate that work at least
15:15:53 <xfq> florian: I guess the idea with incubation is you gather all sorts of people and you make them read it
15:15:58 <xfq> ... and you make them react
15:16:18 <xfq> ... if their reactions are suggestions then maybe you do those
15:16:33 <xfq> ... until you have a crowd of people for it to be an actual spec
15:17:22 <xfq> eemeli: specific question i want to figure out is do we need to have this tracked other than just by having it in the i18n-discuss repo as a file?
15:17:30 <eemeli> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/blob/gh-pages/explainers/message-resources.md
15:17:40 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/2025/11/TPAC/ac-session/xfq-i18n#intro
15:17:46 <addison> xfq: want to share this link
15:17:54 <addison> ... gave a presentation to AC meeting
15:18:57 <jsahleen> Zakim, take up item4
15:18:57 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:19:18 <jsahleen> #284
15:19:19 <gb> Issue 284 not found
15:19:35 <xfq> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91
15:21:31 <eemeli> q+ to ask about an import-text review
15:21:36 <xfq> ack xfq
15:21:57 <xfq> jsahleen: i'll take #283 and #288
15:21:58 <gb> Issue 283 not found
15:21:58 <gb> Issue 288 not found
15:23:00 <Bert> q+ to say I can take one
15:23:26 <xfq> ack Bert
15:23:26 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to say I can take one
15:23:57 <xfq> xfq: i'll take rdf concepts
15:24:09 <xfq> Bert: i'll take rdf n triples
15:24:51 <xfq> jsahleen: rdf semantics?
15:24:58 <xfq> xfq: i'll take that too
15:25:41 <addison> agenda?
15:25:42 <jsahleen> Zakim, take up item5
15:25:44 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:25:58 <jsahleen> #2055
15:25:59 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending
15:25:59 <gb> Issue 2055 not found
15:26:14 <addison> i18n-activity#2055
15:26:15 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2055 -> Issue 2055 Alternative to the explicit base direction setting? (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:epub] [wg:pm]
15:27:36 <jsahleen> i18n-activity#2054
15:27:37 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2054 -> Issue 2054 UX Review: 2.18 Web typography must be highly optimized and appropriate (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:web-sustainability-guidelines] [ig:sustainableweb]
15:27:54 <jsahleen> i18n-activity#2050
15:27:55 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2050 -> Issue 2050 The `auto` value of `ruby-type` (by w3cbot) [pending] [close?] [tracker] [s:html-ruby-extensions] [wg:htmlwg]
15:28:36 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/html-ruby/blob/main/explainers/ruby-tts.md#the-ruby-type-attribute
15:30:02 <xfq> [xfq introduces the issue]
15:30:11 <xfq> florian: I made the fix
15:30:18 <xfq> ... we'll revisit the whole document
15:30:21 <jsahleen> i18n-activity#2047
15:30:21 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2047 -> Issue 2047 Native Footnote/Endnote Element in HTML (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:html] [whatwg]
15:32:03 <addison> agenda?
15:32:26 <jsahleen> Zakim, take up item6
15:32:26 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- HTML Ruby Markup Extension Spec -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:32:41 <xfq> florian: a bit of background
15:33:17 <xfq> ... the HTML spec is maintained at WHATWG
15:33:27 <xfq> ... has had a definition of ruby
15:34:03 <xfq> ... which i18n WG has repeatedly found issue with and wanted to expand upon
15:34:17 <xfq> ... a few years ago, I tried to move this forward
15:34:37 <xfq> ... tried to convince WHATWG to let us work on it
15:34:51 <xfq> ... they don't want to do anything in the HTML spec unless there are two browsers doing it
15:35:15 <xfq> ... the HTML WG of the W3C ran out of charter
15:35:31 <xfq> q+
15:35:51 <xfq> florian: speaking with plh at TPAC
15:36:04 <xfq> ... we figured that the best thing to do probably is to move this spec to i18n WG
15:36:14 <xfq> ... that raises a question of charter
15:36:36 <xfq> ... the current charter is especially designed to not progress anything on the REC track
15:36:54 <xfq> ... however it does include the predecessor to this document as a REC-track document
15:37:05 <xfq> ... in terms of patent scope, we're covered
15:37:11 <r12a> q+
15:37:11 <xfq> ... by the charter
15:37:53 <xfq> ... plh's suggestion is that this group if we agree passes a resolution that we would like to publish a WD
15:38:53 <xfq> ... my request to i18n WG is can we resolve to make a transition request to publish this as a WD of this group?
15:39:48 <addison> q+
15:39:49 <xfq> ack next
15:39:50 <Zakim> eemeli, you wanted to ask about an import-text review
15:39:58 <xfq> ack next
15:41:13 <addison> ack next
15:41:14 <xfq> ack r12a
15:41:54 <r12a> "The Working Group will not produce Rec-track specifications, but will maintain the following W3C Recommendations, should any changes be necessary:"
15:42:00 <xfq> r12a: we do have Ruby Annotation, charmod, and ITS v1 and v2 REC track documents in the charter
15:42:14 <xfq> ... but the charter says "The Working Group will not produce Rec-track specifications, but will maintain the following W3C Recommendations, should any changes be necessary:"
15:42:42 <xfq> ... I don't believe that we're chartered to start work on something that's going to end up being a REC at the moment
15:42:52 <xfq> ... I'm not saying that we shouldn't do that
15:43:16 <jsahleen> q+
15:43:26 <xfq> ... I think in the long run we should amend the charter anyway
15:43:40 <xfq> ... I'd rather not be blocked
15:43:56 <xfq> r12a: perhaps we should start the recharter process now
15:44:46 <xfq> r12a: publish it as a note and then convert it later to REC-track?
15:44:50 <xfq> florian: no that's not allowed
15:44:56 <xfq> ... that breaks the patent policy
15:45:08 <xfq> ... if it's on the REC track, it should stay on the REC track
15:45:26 <xfq> addison: I think we should try it
15:45:36 <xfq> ... it should be loudly announced
15:45:44 <xfq> ... so there's no mystery what we're doing
15:45:49 <xfq> ... we have a timing problem
15:45:50 <r12a> qq+
15:46:03 <xfq> ... going through the chartering thing takes time
15:46:40 <xfq> florian: a different way of phrasing this is we could resolve that this WG intends to publish it as a WD when possible
15:48:54 <addison> q?
15:49:04 <xfq> ... and then we file the issue to figure out whether we already can, or whether we need a recharter
15:49:12 <xfq> ... we should work on the recharter regardless
15:49:50 <xfq> r12a: I would certainly like to see it published asap
15:50:29 <xfq> addison: we should take a resolution to recharter
15:50:40 <xfq> ... with the ability to publish REC-track documents
15:50:43 <xfq> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:50:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:51:57 <florian> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The i18n WG would like to publish https://w3c.github.io/html-ruby/ as a Working Draft as soon as possible, and will file a transition request to confirm whether that can be done prior to rechartering
15:53:07 <florian> s/confirm/inquire/
15:53:39 <addison> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The I18N WG would like to recharter to produce REC track documents. Included in this is the adoption of the HTML Ruby spec (html-ruby), for which we will file a transition request to confirm that we can publish as WD prior to the new charter being in force.
15:55:17 <xfq> addison: do we want to attempt to adopt work on the html ruby spec and try to publish a WD?
15:55:44 <r12a> +12
15:55:47 <florian> +1
15:55:50 <addison> +1
15:55:51 <xfq> <xfq> +1
15:55:52 <jsahleen> +1
15:55:53 <Bert> +1
15:55:53 <David> +1
15:55:56 <r12a> s/+12/+1
15:56:00 <atsushi> +1
15:56:16 <eemeli> +1
15:56:50 <eemeli> q+
15:57:04 <addison> RESOLVED: the I18N WG will attempt to adopt work on the html-ruby spec and try to publish a WD
15:57:05 <r12a> q-
15:57:49 <jsahleen> q-
15:58:34 <addison> do we wish to recharter the I18N WG, including permission to produce REC track documents including the html-ruby spec and potentially the glossary?
15:59:41 <xfq> eemeli: can we make it possible to include message resources without requriring a further rechartering?
16:00:20 <eemeli> q-
16:00:24 <addison> do we wish to recharter the I18N WG, including permission to produce REC track documents including the html-ruby spec and potentially other documents?
16:00:28 <florian> +13
16:00:28 <r12a> +1
16:00:37 <eemeli> +1
16:00:41 <addison> +1
16:00:43 <JcK> +1
16:00:43 <jsahleen> +1
16:00:50 <xfq> <xfq> +1
16:01:03 <David> +1
16:01:42 <xfq> as an example, https://www.w3.org/2025/11/proposed-socialwg-charter.html#deliverables has "Tentative Deliverables"
16:02:00 <addison> RESOLVED: the I18N WG will seek to recharter, including permissio to produce REC track documents including html-ruby and potentially other documents
16:02:04 <atsushi> +1
16:02:20 <addison> ACTION: xfq: produce a new charter draft
16:02:27 <gb> Created -> action #200 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/200
16:03:09 <jsahleen> agenda?
16:03:28 <eemeli> q+ to ask about import-text
16:03:37 <xfq> Zakim, take up item 9
16:03:37 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- HTML Ruby Extensions tracker issues -- taken up [from addison]
16:03:38 <xfq> florian: i can be very brief
16:03:43 <jsahleen> Zakim, take up item9
16:03:43 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- HTML Ruby Extensions tracker issues -- taken up [from addison]
16:03:48 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3As%3Ahtml-ruby-extensions%20label%3Aneeds-resolution
16:04:01 <xfq> ... all the issues that were raised by the i18n WG were addressed
16:04:05 <jsahleen> agenda?
16:04:07 <xfq> ... that's why i closed them
16:04:53 <xfq> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:04:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-i18n-minutes.html xfq
16:05:02 <eemeli> q-
16:16:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:16:24 <addison> zakim, who is here?
16:16:24 <Zakim> Present: Addison, Joel, Florian, JcK, jsahleen, Eemeli, Fuqiao, David, Atsushi, Bert
16:16:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see atsushi, David, Zakim, RRSAgent, addison, r12a, florian, gb, agendabot, koji, alastairc, astearns, Rachael, cwilso, jyasskin, eemeli, csarven, Mek, Bert, ChrisL, xfq
16:17:00 <addison> zakim, bye
16:17:00 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Joel, Florian, JcK, jsahleen, Eemeli, Fuqiao, David, Atsushi, Bert
16:17:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
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