15:49:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #did
15:49:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-did-irc
15:49:50 <ottomorac> rrsagent, make logs public
15:49:57 <ottomorac> Meeting: Decentralized Identifier Working Group
15:50:03 <ottomorac> Chair: ottomorac
15:50:09 <ottomorac> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-did-wg/2025Dec/0002.html
15:50:59 <ottomorac> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-did-minutes.html
15:52:17 <ottomorac> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/12/11-did-minutes.html
16:01:41 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #did
16:03:30 <pchampin> present+
16:03:35 <manu> present+
16:04:29 <swcurran> swcurran has joined #did
16:04:35 <swcurran> present+
16:04:44 <pchampin> scribe+
16:04:49 <ottomorac> present+
16:05:36 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
16:05:36 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
16:06:07 <agendabot> agendabot has joined #did
16:06:19 <pchampin> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-did-wg/2025Dec/0002.html
16:06:19 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:06:19 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review, Introductions (5 min)
16:06:19 <agendabot> agenda+ Debrief from TPAC (5 min)
16:06:19 <agendabot> agenda+ DID Resolution PR Processing \[1\] (15 min)
16:06:19 <agendabot> agenda+ Unclear definition of ""Read"" operation for DID methods #230 \[2\] (7 min)
16:06:21 <agendabot> agenda+ DID Resolution Issue Processing \[3\] (25 min)
16:06:36 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
16:06:36 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review, Introductions (5 min) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:07:35 <ottomorac> Topic: Debrief from TPAC
16:07:36 <KevinDean> KevinDean has joined #did
16:07:41 <KevinDean> present+
16:08:13 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
16:08:13 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Debrief from TPAC (5 min) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:08:22 <TallTed> s/Topic: Debrief from TPAC//
16:08:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-did-minutes.html TallTed
16:08:45 <manu> q+
16:08:49 <ottomorac> ack manu
16:08:52 <pchampin> ottomorac: any impression from TPAC, for those who were there?
16:08:57 <TallTed> present+
16:09:09 <ottomorac> Here are TPAC meeting minutes: https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-did-minutes.html
16:09:18 <pchampin> manu: we processed a lot of issues
16:09:33 <pchampin> ... we had a lot of things ready for PR
16:09:55 <pchampin> ... which means that now we need people to write those PRs
16:10:17 <pchampin> ... we identified that we need to raise PR at a faster rate than what we have been doing
16:10:30 <pchampin> .... Not much discussion on the DID core specification.
16:10:51 <pchampin> ... I think we were supposed to publish a CR in November, but nothing published yet.
16:11:23 <pchampin> ... For DID Resolution, we went through a lot of issues, nothing really blocking.
16:11:55 <pchampin> ottomorac: I know swcurran has been preparing some things about DID Path discussion
16:12:08 <ottomorac> zakim, open next item
16:12:08 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- DID Resolution PR Processing \[1\] (15 min) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:12:26 <pchampin> i|agendum 3|... my understanding is that Wil will allocate some time next Thursday for that topic
16:12:38 <ottomorac> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/242
16:13:03 <pchampin> ottomorac: just some clean up, approval from swcurran
16:13:08 <JoeAndrieu> JoeAndrieu has joined #did
16:13:16 <pchampin> ... it would be good to have more approval, it seems straightforwad
16:13:52 <ottomorac> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/206
16:14:06 <pchampin> ottomorac: this one is about self-attested DID document metadata
16:14:25 <pchampin> ... also approved by swcurran, some changes by manu
16:14:39 <JoeAndrieu> q+
16:14:49 <pchampin> ... it would be good to have Markus for this one
16:14:52 <ottomorac> ack JoeAndrieu
16:15:25 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: some text close to the PR, but not changed by the PR, is incorrect
16:15:29 <pchampin> ... I can raise this as an issue
16:15:34 <swcurran> q+
16:15:41 <ottomorac> ack swcurran
16:16:21 <pchampin> swcurran: [proposes alternative text, that JoeAndrieu is happy about]
16:16:54 <ottomorac> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/215
16:17:07 <pchampin> ottomorac: this one has no review yet
16:17:25 <JoeAndrieu> Alternative language from "the metadata ... or from the did method" to something about "from the did resolver, as defined by the did method"
16:17:25 <pchampin> ... probably one for Markus, but maybe others have feeedback?
16:17:48 <swcurran> swcurran: The DID Method defines the metadata, and JoeAndrieu noted that the DID Resolver implements and could be compromised.
16:17:51 <ottomorac> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/217
16:18:06 <ottomorac> Prefer UTF-8 for DID Parameters #217
16:18:50 <pchampin> ottomorac: related to an issue raised by Addison Philips as part of the i18n review
16:18:56 <ottomorac> Also appreciate reviews on 219, 248, 253
16:19:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-did-minutes.html TallTed
16:19:39 <ottomorac> zakim, open next item
16:19:39 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Unclear definition of ""Read"" operation for DID methods #230 \[2\] (7 min) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:19:58 <ottomorac> https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/230
16:20:03 <ottomorac> There is one additional clarification that Will requested on this issue regarding the Resolve vs. Read Operation and how we are managing that in DID Core. Markus has provided his perspective, and Will would like Manu to weigh in here as well.
16:20:22 <pchampin> ottomorac: this issue had some conversation in the past day
16:20:51 <manu> q+
16:20:59 <pchampin> ... Markus would like Manu's take on this, as it may also impact DID core.
16:21:21 <ottomorac1> ottomorac1 has joined #did
16:21:34 <pchampin> manu: I think I agree with what Markus is saying in this issue
16:21:48 <pchampin> ... I need to look in more depth on how it impacts DID core
16:22:06 <pchampin> ... Markus says that there is a difference between read and resolve
16:22:18 <pchampin> ... "read" just instructs the resolver to perform the resolution
16:22:31 <pchampin> ... "resolve" is the process applied by the resolver
16:23:03 <pchampin> ... we could transfer this issue to DID core, I believe it is editorial, so we could make it in CR
16:23:35 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: I do think we need this nuance, but I'm not sure I would put it exactly as manu did.
16:23:54 <manu> +1 that there is nuance to tease out
16:23:54 <pchampin> ... for me "read" is what the resolver is doing, "resolve" is what the method defines
16:24:01 <KevinDean> "Resolve" is a function within "Read".
16:24:05 <pchampin> ... we can discuss on proposed text
16:24:07 <ottomorac1> ottomorac1 has joined #did
16:24:11 <ottomorac1> q?
16:24:15 <ottomorac1> ack manu
16:24:27 <swcurran> Wow...Joe, I think the reverse.
16:25:22 <pchampin> swcurran: I think the only reason the term "read" is here is because the acronym CRUD is used.
16:25:35 <pchampin> ... if DID core dropped "CRUD", resolve would be enough
16:25:41 <manu> We'd have Create, Resolve, Update, and Deactivate :)
16:25:43 <pchampin> ... but +1 to tease it out in a PR
16:25:45 <ottomorac1> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/234
16:26:16 <JoeAndrieu> q+ to comment on #217
16:26:17 <pchampin> ottomorac: this one is pretty much ready for PR
16:26:27 <pchampin> ... Will has added some elemenrs
16:27:08 <TallTed> s/elemenrs/elements/
16:27:49 <ottomorac1> q>
16:27:51 <ottomorac1> q?
16:27:56 <ottomorac1> ack JoeAndrieu
16:27:56 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to comment on #217
16:28:13 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: the resolution was about the accept headers in HTTP
16:29:05 <pchampin> ottomorac: which of the two statements would be correct?
16:29:15 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: I think that it reads akwardly more than it is wrong
16:29:30 <pchampin> ottomorac: do you think you could propose a better wording?
16:29:41 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: maybe. I think Will has an idea about how to resolve this.
16:30:18 <ottomorac1> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/217
16:30:38 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: I just added a comment. The language that removed the percent-encoding bit that caught my eye.
16:31:12 <pchampin> ... I don't think that we can remove it, because if we use UTF-8 in a URL, it will get percent-encoded.
16:31:20 <pchampin> q+
16:31:36 <ottomorac1> ack pchampin
16:31:40 <manu> q+
16:33:02 <ottomorac1> ack manu
16:33:02 <pchampin> pchampin: is percent-encoding our responsibility?
16:33:26 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: as we are defining URL parameter, they are defined as being part of a URL, so they need to be percent-encoded
16:33:36 <pchampin> manu: there are 3 different things here
16:34:08 <pchampin> ... I agree with JoeAndrieu that things will need to be percent-encoded; we should not re-define it, but refer to the RFC
16:34:35 <TallTed> q+ to check whether we're staying with RFC 3986/7 or moving to WHAT WG's URL spec
16:34:41 <ottomorac1> Addison talked about  RFC3987:  https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/200#issuecomment-3335817636
16:34:54 <pchampin> ... another point is: are we talking about the the value space, which need to support UTF-8, or the lexical space, where percent-encoding is required
16:34:57 <JoeAndrieu> q+ to say I see the fix
16:35:25 <ottomorac1> ack tallted
16:35:25 <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to check whether we're staying with RFC 3986/7 or moving to WHAT WG's URL spec
16:35:55 <pchampin> TallTed: RCF3986 and RFC3987 travel together, they don't really make sense without each other
16:36:09 <manu> q+
16:36:16 <pchampin> ... another question is: are we sticking to these RFCs, or moving to the WHATWG's definition of URL
16:36:22 <ottomorac1> https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/200#issuecomment-3335817636
16:36:24 <pchampin> ... (mostly the same, but slightly different)
16:36:41 <ottomorac1> q?
16:36:47 <ottomorac1> ack JoeAndrieu
16:36:47 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to say I see the fix
16:36:56 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: my concerns have actually been addressed
16:37:11 <smccown> smccown has joined #did
16:37:17 <pchampin> ... there is a global statement stating that everything must be serialized
16:37:32 <pchampin> ... I got distracted by the title of the issue; with TallTed's clarification, the text seems fine
16:37:56 <ottomorac1> ack manu
16:37:59 <pchampin> ... I think we should talk about the issue raised by TallTed; the VC WG has moved to the WHATWG's definition of URL
16:38:11 <pchampin> manu: now reading Addison's commentary, it is aligned with what I said.
16:38:30 <pchampin> ... He calls it "logical" vs "serialized", what I called "value space" vs "lexical space"
16:38:46 <pchampin> ... He says we don't make the distinction and we should make it.
16:39:22 <pchampin> ... He says "don't constraint systems to be ASCII only", talking about the value space
16:39:49 <pchampin> ... There are two encoding algorithms, we need to be carefuly which one we refer to.
16:40:04 <pchampin> ... We need to be sure this change does not impact also DID core, looking at it right now.
16:40:27 <pchampin> ottomorac: Will pointed out that DID parameters were dropped from DID core 1.1 .
16:40:27 <ottomorac1> q?
16:40:42 <pchampin> manu: if that right?
16:40:52 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: if that's right, it feels weird to me.
16:41:44 <pchampin> manu: DID URLs define parameters, it talks mostly about the lexical space
16:41:47 <pchampin> ... we should be good.
16:41:58 <pchampin> ... I agree with JoeAndrieu that it would have been wrong to completely remove them.
16:42:10 <JoeAndrieu> q+
16:42:32 <ottomorac1> ack JoeAndrieu
16:42:36 <pchampin> ... This now raises the question of DID Resolution re-stating something that DID core states more cleanly.
16:43:03 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: looking at the differences between RFC3986 and RFC3987. They are not many, but they may be significant.
16:43:29 <pchampin> ... RFC3987 aims to support international characters that are not supported by RFC3986.
16:44:01 <pchampin> ... We could switch to RFC3987. There are questions about similarly-looking characters, but I don't think that's our issue.
16:44:02 <manu> q+
16:44:06 <ottomorac1> ack manu
16:44:40 <pchampin> manu: going back to the PR. I think it is fine as is.
16:44:47 <pchampin> ... I don't think we need to change anything.
16:44:52 <pchampin> ... JoeAndrieu would you agree?
16:45:01 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: it addresses my concern with percent-encoding.
16:45:09 <pchampin> ... But there is a shift about international characters.
16:45:19 <manu> q+
16:45:23 <pchampin> ... The shift to RFC3987 would allow characters that were not allowed before.
16:45:35 <pchampin> ... We need to think whether it would break implementations?
16:45:47 <ottomorac1> ack manu
16:45:59 <pchampin> ... Allowing international characters is a good thing as long as we don't introduce security or privacy problems.
16:46:41 <pchampin> manu: trying to get closure on this. §3.1 in RFC3987 describes how to map an IRI to a URI.
16:47:54 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: I was looking to the ABNF, §2.2. 'ucschar' is a class of new characters
16:48:14 <pchampin> manu: ucschar is not UTF-8, but can be converted to UTF-8.
16:48:29 <pchampin> ... I think we are fine with the PR as is.
16:48:32 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: +1
16:48:49 <ottomorac1> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/232
16:49:02 <ottomorac1> Can we avoid term definition duplication across DID specs? #232
16:49:50 <pchampin> ottomorac1: we have some guidance from manu, now we need a willing participant to implement the changes
16:49:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-did-minutes.html TallTed
16:49:58 <JoeAndrieu> present+
16:50:06 <smccown> present+
16:50:14 <pchampin> ... I could try this on
16:50:28 <pchampin> ... I may require some help, but I can make an initial proposal.
16:50:37 <ottomorac1> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/228
16:50:48 <ottomorac1> Fix bug in implementer overview description #228
16:52:21 <JoeAndrieu> q+
16:52:22 <pchampin> ottomorac1: we discuss that on a previous call, but manu was not here
16:52:28 <pchampin> ... did it get discussed at TPAC?
16:52:32 <ottomorac1> ack JoeAndrieu
16:53:02 <pchampin> JoeAndrieu: this is about the fact that we define DID resolution as only using the DID
16:53:15 <pchampin> ... but that's not exactly how it works.
16:53:36 <swcurran> +1 to Joe's description
16:53:52 <pchampin> ... we start with a DID URL with parameters; we extract the DID and the parameters, and use the parameters to configure the resolution
16:53:53 <manu> +1 to Joe
16:54:14 <pchampin> ottomorac1: I think this is an issue for Markus
16:54:52 <pchampin> manu: we talked about this at TPAC and came to a resolution. This is marked "ready for PR". What JoeAndrieu said should be addressed.
16:55:02 <ottomorac1> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/225
16:55:46 <manu> q+
16:55:51 <ottomorac1> ack manu
16:56:00 <pchampin> manu: it is editorial
16:56:29 <pchampin> ... I'm wondering: should we spend call-time discussing issues that are marked "ready for PR".
16:56:41 <pchampin> ... All those issues need is someone taking them on.
16:57:02 <pchampin> ... We processed these at TPAC, let's not re-process them.
16:57:23 <pchampin> ... Some discussions brought clarifications, but this one does not need any.
16:57:40 <pchampin> ... At this point, I think the chairs should appoint people; asking nicely for volunteers will not work.
16:57:48 <bigbluehat> bigbluehat has joined #did
16:57:54 <pchampin> ... This is just a suggestion, though.
16:58:59 <pchampin> i|subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/234|topic: DID-Resolution issues
16:59:06 <pchampin> Topic: next meeting
16:59:21 <pchampin> ottomorac1: next week we will allocate time to discuss path
16:59:31 <pchampin> swcurran: yes, I think we need to align on that
16:59:34 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:59:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-did-minutes.html pchampin
17:07:07 <ottomorac> ottomorac has joined #did
17:10:59 <ottomorac> rrsagent, make minutes
17:11:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-did-minutes.html ottomorac
17:11:59 <ottomorac> m2gbot, link issues with transcript
17:12:00 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/242#issuecomment-3613327740
17:12:01 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/206#issuecomment-3613327877
17:12:02 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/215#issuecomment-3613327953
17:12:03 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/217#issuecomment-3613328017
17:12:04 <m2gbot> comment already there: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/217#issuecomment-3613328017
17:12:05 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/230#issuecomment-3613328289
17:12:06 <m2gbot> comment already there: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/230#issuecomment-3613328289
17:12:07 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/234#issuecomment-3613328529
17:12:08 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/pull/217#issuecomment-3613328684
17:12:09 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/232#issuecomment-3613328809
17:12:10 <m2gbot> comment already there: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/232#issuecomment-3613328809
17:12:11 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/228#issuecomment-3613329023
17:12:12 <m2gbot> comment already there: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/228#issuecomment-3613329023
17:12:13 <m2gbot> comment created: https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/225#issuecomment-3613329213
17:13:40 <ottomorac> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-did-minutes.html
17:13:57 <ottomorac> zakim, end the meeting
17:13:57 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pchampin, manu, swcurran, ottomorac, KevinDean, TallTed, JoeAndrieu, smccown
17:13:59 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:14:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/04-did-minutes.html Zakim
17:14:07 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ottomorac; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:14:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #did
17:14:36 <ottomorac> RRSAgent, please excuse us
17:14:36 <RRSAgent> I see no action items