19:09:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #a11yedge
19:09:39 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/12/03-a11yedge-irc
19:09:39 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
19:09:40 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
19:10:15 <janina> Meeting: Accessibility at the Edge (A11yEdge) Community Group Teleconference
19:10:24 <janina> Date 03 Dec 2025
19:10:29 <janina> Chair: Janina
19:34:14 <janina> present+
19:37:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #a11yedge
19:37:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
19:38:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
19:38:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/03-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
19:39:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+ Chris
19:40:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: TPAC Breakout
19:42:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+ Noreen
19:42:43 <Noreen> Noreen has joined #A11yedge
19:43:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+ Jason
19:44:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
19:44:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Let's gather the links to the breakout
19:44:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Git hub link, https://github.com/w3c/tpac2025-breakouts/issues/47
19:45:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... many errors in the minutes: the title has typos
19:45:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html
19:46:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... request a fix to the Mintues title, currently reads 'Accerssibility at the Edte'
19:46:51 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... change to 'Accessibility at the Edge'
19:48:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the recording is not complete-- it stops after the introductions
19:49:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the bulk of the discussion is not on the recording, so we have to rely on the minutes
19:49:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Note for next time, let's have a backup for the recording just in case\
19:50:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Link to the recording, https://www.w3.org/2025/11/breakouts/recording-47.html#transcript
19:52:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Have you had feedback?
19:52:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> Jason: Most people who turned up had not yet read the document
19:53:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I am getting some feedback
19:53:20 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... not sure the publication itself is that interesting for the community
19:53:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we may want to start blogging about how post-source is being used by various companies
19:53:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... recent JAWS update
19:53:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> .. Microsoft started doing alt tagging
19:54:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we can blog about real-world use cases
19:54:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: +1. this is a positive approach and also engages in a way that we want to engage, around the viability
19:55:12 <Lionel_Wolberger> Chris: Such blog posts wouuld likely help people to digest the publication in parts (rather that having to read the whole thing)
19:59:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Publication is a significant ste[
20:00:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> Jason: It is helpful that it is published. But the people I am talking to ask, ok, but that's not news.
20:04:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I stressed from a year ago, most of the accessibility software finds stuff, and does not fix stuff
20:04:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I urged this to Gina B at Forrester as well, she should address remediation as well
20:05:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... services are out of scope of her Forrester WAVE report
20:05:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... WAVE has to be about applications that customers can buy
20:05:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the publication is not 'news' to her, as nothing has changed
20:06:56 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... to repeat, she needs to talk about outcomes. that means addressing remediation.
20:09:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: Identifying Post-Source in Products
20:10:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> Jason: Approach the vendors that are adding post-source
20:10:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we may deem this JAWS function is post-source. We discuss in this group if we agree that it is post-source
20:14:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... then reach out to the product manager and say, BTW here's another whole bunch of post-source that you might be interested in
20:14:20 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... what came out of TPAC for me is that
20:14:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... our highly automatable post-source things can be done by browsers
20:14:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... browsers can do this similar thing, and offer as a value add
20:14:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrrsagent, make minutes
20:15:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... it's about providing better experiences
20:16:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: Information Architecture Lightning Talk
20:16:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> Noreen: The origianl meeting had to be rescheduled due to illness
20:16:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: We do not yet have a new date
20:18:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: Misc (Book)
20:21:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> Chris: The book, Digital Culture Shock: Who Creates Technology and Why This Matters
20:21:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... by Katharina Reinecke
20:21:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... she highlights the role of culture in technological decisions
20:22:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Sounds like it's an issue more in pre-source, in the design phase
20:23:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: All these pages designed by 20 year olds that 50 years olds cannot follow
20:23:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Control + (zoom in) is the first keystroke people learn regarding accessibility
20:28:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, end meeting
20:28:15 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Chris, Noreen, Jason
20:28:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:28:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/12/03-a11yedge-minutes.html Zakim
20:28:25 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
20:28:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #a11yedge