15:58:35 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 15:58:39 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-hcls-irc 15:58:39 rrsagent, make logs public 15:58:43 Meeting: FHIR RDF 15:58:46 Chair: David Booth 16:01:54 Topic: Ken Lord's interest in FHIR RDF 16:03:05 ken: My company provides healthcare data interop. As a basic principle, to have accurate transformations btwn data in different data models, it requires semantic equivalence. 16:03:31 ... So we do bi-directional mappings between FHIR, X12, CCDA, and proprietary structures like CSV. 16:03:59 ... Want to have an OWL ont that supports RDF implementations, and this can be linked to data models such as FHIR. 16:04:35 ... This group has done a lot of good work on syntactic side. Interest or plans for semantics and classes in OWL? 16:05:40 ericp: I played a while ago connecting SNOMED to FHIR RDF and doing classification inference. It worked well. 16:06:02 ... But it was hard not to overwhelm the machine, because of the size of SNOMED. 16:06:18 ... Had to use bits of SNOMED, which means I kinda had to know the answer. 16:06:48 ... Another useful thing would be process mgmt, such as substance request and procecure request, and make sure they don't get too old. 16:06:59 ... Want use cases that would drive the OWL ont. 16:07:11 ... Most would mix terminilogy w info model. 16:07:29 ken: THis would provide a foundation for someone doing the inference. 16:07:56 ... Would be valuable to my work. Hope that having an ont that could span muliple data models would have value. 16:08:11 tim: There are multiple use cases OWL could help for. 16:08:21 ... But your primary problem is translation or mapping data? 16:09:07 ken: yes. We segregate translations (at valueset level), but at the concept level it's at the transmission of one concept to another in different data models. 16:09:23 tim: For mapping valuesets, FHIR has concept map. 16:10:04 ken: We use that. But bindings of concepts to data. Need to transform the data from one concept in one data model to another concept in another data model. 16:10:52 ... Very useful, but there are ambiguities involved. Also going across data models, having an ont at a concept level, w equiv concepts, gives you confidence in the transformation. 16:11:25 gaurav: I wonder if you could use LinkML to model your data, map permissible values to concepts, and use that to transform your data into RDF: https://linkml.io/linkml/schemas/enums.html 16:12:09 ... It also has a mapping format: https://linkml.io/linkml-map/ 16:12:36 ken: In 2008 OMG developed a model-driven message interop std. 16:13:39 ... It was a generic approach for modeling any data model. We've adapted that for healthcare industry. 16:14:11 ... Very confident in our operational approach. Want to add an upper ont to give people confidence. 16:14:24 ... OMG std was MDMI 16:14:31 https://www.omg.org/spec/MDMI 16:15:03 EricJahn: Re LinkML, W3C CSV for the Web could also be used to link CSV columns to RDF contexts 16:15:20 ... We use that. Simple way to go. 16:17:16 dbooth: SSSOM: https://github.com/mapping-commons/sssom 16:17:54 ken: Lots of implementation approaches can be used, but an ont could help 16:18:06 ... We used BFO 16:18:41 tim: I would suggest we generate equivalence/subsumption mappings from FHIR ConceptMaps 16:19:03 ... I mapped BFO to concept maps using prov ont. 16:19:31 ... Planning to do that w FHIR. We have a FHIR ont. 16:20:06 ken: I've looked at fhir.ttl, but when it gets to semantics, e.g., BackBone class leads you to nowhere semantically. 16:20:28 ... If there's interest in expanding that, I'd be interested. 16:20:43 tim: We could potentially map it to BFO. But why? 16:21:16 ken: For data quality. There are no computable ways to provide quality assurance around transformations. 16:22:07 tim: We can validate data, according to the BackBone elements. Also there are axioms for the BackBone element classes. 16:22:54 ericp: You want a checksum. A human said there's a mapping from x to y, and you want to verify that there is. 16:24:05 tim: If you're mapping X12 to FHIR, and there's something in FHIR that you've mapped to a BFO object, and you've mapped x12 to a process, and those don't link up BFO, but you would already have to have mapped x12 and FHIR to BFO. 16:24:30 ericp: Another use case is to drive the dev of the mapping. 16:25:28 ... having a human in the loop, the computer could help guide the search space. 16:26:02 ken: But humans introduce errors, though you require them to sign off. 16:28:32 gaurav: I would suggest we generate equivalence/subsumption mappings from FHIR ConceptMaps 16:29:40 Topic: IRI stems 16:29:42 https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/196 16:29:52 gaurav: Want David and other review on it 16:30:31 Topic: R6 16:39:00 https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/213 16:39:28 ACTION: tim to do step 0: Run our R6 kindling-turtle generator and R6 kindling-shex generator using R5 structure defs and R5 XML examples to produce R5+6 turtle example and R5+6 shex shapes. 16:41:16 dbooth: How do you run kindling to gen a single example? 16:41:33 tim: It's at the bottom of our repo: https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf?tab=readme-ov-file#rdf--shex-generation 16:42:16 ... I point it to a directory. Whatever's in there, it will try to create a Turtle version of it. 16:43:43 ericp: You'll want to work on Master from the FHIRcat repo. 16:48:26 tim: What's R6 progress? Chance for more changes? 16:48:48 rob: Nov 1 deadline shifted. Grahame tried to close it out in the next day or two. Locked now for Jan ballot. 16:48:57 ... But there will definitely be another ballot. 16:49:47 ... Two more opportunities: If there's something missing it can be a ballot comment and it can be fixed in ballot reconciliation process. But also another round of balloting. 16:50:56 tim: This is fixing something that should be there. 16:51:10 dbooth: It's a deficiency in shex, not a spec change, right? 16:51:12 tim: yes 16:51:45 tim: I figured out how to do shex for CodeableConcepts 16:53:26 tim: I can implement issue 198 after Jan 1 17:00:12 tim: https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/167 I have a full solution for this in ShEx 17:00:35 ... And it works for any descendent of the SNOMED concept 17:02:11 ADJOURNED 17:03:33 Present: Ken Lord, Eric Jahn, EricP, Erich Bremer, Gaurav Vaidya, Detlef Grittner, David Booth, Tim Prudhomme, Rob Hausam 17:03:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:03:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 17:04:50 s/interest in FHIR RDF/interest in an ontology for semantics of mapping 17:05:33 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:05:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-hcls-minutes.html dbooth