15:01:21 RRSAgent has joined #act-r 15:01:26 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-act-r-irc 15:01:26 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:01:27 Meeting: ACT Rules Community Group Teleconference 15:01:37 agenda+ ACT stand-up 15:01:37 agenda+ [b49b2e] Heading is descriptive - VO on macOS exposes empty headings in the rotor navigation #2361 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2361 15:01:37 agenda+ aria-description and the rule "ARIA attribute is defined in WAI-ARIA" (5f99a7) #2366 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2366 15:01:39 agenda+ Element in sequential focus order has visible focus [oj04fd] expectation allows common scenarios to pass even when failing #2368 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2368 15:01:41 agenda+ Should rule classification be applied anymore? #2370 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2370 15:05:52 present+ 15:06:34 present+ 15:07:40 scribe: Jean-Yves 15:07:48 Wilco has joined #act-r 15:07:55 zakim, take up next 15:07:55 agendum 1 -- ACT stand-up -- taken up [from CarlosD] 15:08:29 Jean-Yves: did some reviews. 15:08:51 present+ Helen 15:08:57 sashanichols has joined #act-r 15:09:00 present+ 15:09:35 sashanichols: add some example to autoplay rules. 15:09:58 Wilco: final redesign of the "all rules" page. 15:10:46 agenda+ all rules page https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act-rules/pull/330 15:12:23 CarlosD: I will be stepping down as co-chair due to lack of time. Will still take part of the CG. 15:13:20 zakim, take up item 6 15:13:20 agendum 6 -- all rules page https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act-rules/pull/330 -- taken up [from Jean-Yves] 15:13:47 Preview at https://deploy-preview-330--wai-wcag-act-rules.netlify.app/standards-guidelines/act/rules/ 15:14:53 Wilco: still some tweaks on the page. W3C doesn't like that the SC text is shortened (not all subitems, …) 15:16:02 Wilco: should we have only the SC number, title and level, with no description? 15:16:16 sashanichols: we could remove the text. 15:16:25 CarlosD: same. 15:17:59 sashanichols: is one sentence that helpful, one still need to open the link to see everything. 15:19:04 CarlosD: I am not really in favour of removing the text, but I do not oppose. 15:19:18 Helen: might be easier to not duplicate text. 15:19:32 Wilco: it is auto-updated. 15:19:55 Jean-Yves: same as CarlosD. 15:20:22 CarlosD: why did Rémi want to remove it? 15:20:33 Wilco: he think it would be clearer without it. 15:21:07 sashanichols: I would need to open the link anyway, so it's fine without text. 15:21:25 Wilco: I'll forward our preference, but we'll remove the text if pushed against. 15:21:34 zakim, take up next 15:21:34 agendum 1 -- ACT stand-up -- taken up [from CarlosD] 15:21:41 zakim, take up next 15:21:41 agendum 1 was just opened, Jean-Yves 15:21:48 zakim, take up item 2 15:21:48 agendum 2 -- [b49b2e] Heading is descriptive - VO on macOS exposes empty headings in the rotor navigation #2361 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2361 -- 15:21:51 ... taken up [from CarlosD] 15:24:35 CarlosD: Accessibility support question. Daniel created this after a PR from Giacomo. 15:25:32 PR with the accessibility support note: https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2351 15:26:21 Wilco: we decided to track AS issues to be able to track them later. 15:27:12 Wilco: #2351 can go in Call for Review. 15:27:30 zakim, take up next 15:27:30 agendum 1 -- ACT stand-up -- taken up [from CarlosD] 15:27:38 zakim, take up 3 15:27:38 I don't understand 'take up 3', Jean-Yves 15:27:43 zakim, take up item 3 15:27:43 agendum 3 -- aria-description and the rule "ARIA attribute is defined in WAI-ARIA" (5f99a7) #2366 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2366 -- taken up [from 15:27:46 ... CarlosD] 15:27:47 zakim, close item 1 15:27:47 agendum 1, ACT stand-up, closed 15:27:48 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:27:48 3. aria-description and the rule "ARIA attribute is defined in WAI-ARIA" (5f99a7) #2366 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2366 [from CarlosD] 15:30:04 Jean-Yves: Some people start using ARIA 1.3 attributes, but our rule still target 1.2. Should we accept these new constructions. 15:31:55 Wilco: nothing prohibits usage of ARIA 1.3, axe-core allows it. 15:32:58 CarlosD: how strongly do we want to harmonize tools? 15:34:11 Wilco: on other rules we chose to not add examples that fail the letter but we think are OK. 15:34:45 Wilco: ARIA 1.3 is not really, but it's not harmful to allow the attributes. 15:36:30 CarlosD: if aria-description is the only provided description, it may be failing with some UA/AT combinations. 15:39:17 Jean-Yves: we should make it explicit if we want to leave the choice to implementors. 15:40:04 Wilco: we need to look at impact of this in other ARIA rules. 15:40:34 Wilco: can we put a note on the definition of "WAI ARIA specifications" 15:41:39 zakim, take up next 15:41:39 agendum 4 -- Element in sequential focus order has visible focus [oj04fd] expectation allows common scenarios to pass even when failing #2368 - 15:41:41 ... https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2368 -- taken up [from CarlosD] 15:45:33 CarlosD: the "focus visible" rule passes even in cases where the SC doesn't. Example is a menu where all items open the same fly-out menu. So pixels changes (rule OK), but not in a distinguishable way (SC KO). 15:47:08 Jean-Yves: the rule was tricky to write. Not sure we can improve it to catch this without creating false positives. 15:50:53 Jean-Yves: the new Failed Example 3 has 3 menu items opening the exact same fly-out menu. So they essentially have the same focus indicator (the fly-out menu), and this fails the SC, but the rule passes because it does not compare the indicators. 15:51:27 Wilco: we already have a note stating the identical focus indicators are not WCAG good, but pass this rule nonetheless. 15:53:37 zakim, take up next. 15:53:37 agendum 5 -- Should rule classification be applied anymore? #2370 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2370 -- taken up [from CarlosD] 15:54:31 CarlosD: We never had an official manual/auto classification of rules, so this may just be a misunderstanding. 15:55:32 Helen: maybe we could speak about "subjective/objective" rules internally to avoid confusion. 15:56:08 CarlosD: not all manual rules are subjective. We can remove the "manual" Github label. 15:57:33 Helen: OK with removing the label. 15:58:42 zakim, close item 5 15:58:42 agendum 5, Should rule classification be applied anymore? #2370 - https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2370, closed 15:58:44 I see nothing remaining on the agenda 16:01:30 RRSAgent, draft minutes v1 16:01:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 16:02:06 present+ Wilco 16:02:09 RRSAgent, draft minutes v1 16:02:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 16:02:29 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:02:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 16:04:20 s/is not really/is not ready 16:04:22 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:04:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 16:07:18 s/is not really/is not ready 16:07:21 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:07:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 16:14:14 zakim, end meeting 16:14:14 As of this point the attendees have been Jean-Yves, CarlosD, Helen, sashanichols, Wilco 16:14:16 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v1 16:14:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-act-r-minutes.html Zakim 16:14:24 I am happy to have been of service, CarlosD; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 16:14:24 Zakim has left #act-r 16:14:35 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:14:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/13-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 16:14:44 RRSAgent, bye 16:14:44 I see no action items