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04:40:36 <breakout-bot> Meeting: Age-Based Restrictions Have Come for the Web
04:40:36 <breakout-bot> Chair: Tara Whalen, Benjamin VanderSloot
04:40:36 <breakout-bot> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2025-breakouts/issues/75
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04:40:37 <breakout-bot> Zakim, clear agenda
04:40:37 <Zakim> agenda cleared
04:40:37 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
04:40:38 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
04:40:38 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
04:40:38 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
04:40:38 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
04:40:40 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
04:40:41 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
04:40:41 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
04:40:41 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
04:40:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
04:40:42 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Adjourn / Use IRC command: Zakim, end meeting
04:40:42 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
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05:14:59 <breakout-bot> RRSAgent, do not leave
05:15:00 <breakout-bot> RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight
05:15:01 <breakout-bot> RRSAgent, make logs public
05:15:02 <breakout-bot> Meeting: Age-Based Restrictions Have Come for the Web
05:15:02 <breakout-bot> Chair: Tara Whalen, Benjamin VanderSloot
05:15:02 <breakout-bot> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2025-breakouts/issues/75
05:15:02 <breakout-bot> Zakim, clear agenda
05:15:02 <Zakim> agenda cleared
05:15:02 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
05:15:03 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
05:15:03 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
05:15:03 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
05:15:04 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
05:15:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
05:15:05 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
05:15:05 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
05:15:06 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
05:15:07 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
05:15:07 <breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Adjourn / Use IRC command: Zakim, end meeting
05:15:07 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
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05:44:33 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
05:44:37 <smcgruer_[EST]> present+
05:44:48 <hadleybeeman> present+
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05:47:10 <tara> The Zoom is acting up a bit, please stand by...
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05:51:09 <npdoty> I guess I can scribe since I have more Internet access
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05:52:48 <dezell> present+ David-Ezell
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05:52:56 <PZ> Present+
05:52:58 <alexmt> present+
05:53:02 <pascoe> present+
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05:53:20 <reillyg> present+
05:53:20 <tara> ben: agenda: workshop summary to start
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05:53:37 <smcgruer_[EST]> Topic: Debrief from workshop
05:53:55 <tara> IAB + W3C jointly ran the workshop: get people from different groups under Chatham House style venue to talk about problem
05:53:59 <rbyers> present+
05:54:19 <tara> regulatory folks, child safety orgs, browser vendors etc
05:54:41 <tara> lot of considerations to think about, many intersecting components
05:54:53 <mt_hates_irc> insert obligatory avenue Q reference
05:56:12 <tara> Group provided several ideas of the major impacts, e.g., phishing risk from data collection
05:56:46 <tara> properties of good solutions, e.g., purpose-limitations of data collected
05:57:04 <tara> want to be based on open standards
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05:57:22 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
05:57:48 <tara> Topic: architectural groundwork
05:57:58 <smcgruer_[EST]> [We see a diagram of content -> service -> network -> device -> user]
05:58:38 <tara> Roles in enforcement: verifier; enforcer; policy selector; content rater
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05:59:19 <tara> Nick: lot of architectural options
05:59:37 <tara> ...roles can be spread across different parties, or grouped together
05:59:49 <tara> ...or cooperative arrangements
06:00:32 <tara> ex: "signalling" - device to signal to service "I am a certain age, so serve me certain content"
06:00:57 <tara> ...content rating can be done by service (knows the context of the content)
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06:01:35 <tara> ...existing work: declared age-range API, see CA law which mandates age range be supported
06:01:53 <tara> labelling switches these roles, e.g., parental controls
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06:02:29 <phila> present+
06:02:38 <phila> q+ to talk about labeling
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06:02:44 <tara> service can signal the type of content, can be enforced at device (does not serve it under policy)
06:03:38 <tara> credential-based age proof: issuer of credential, verifies user's age
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06:04:00 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:04:04 <manu_> q+
06:04:06 <smcgruer_[EST]> Topic: Open discussion
06:04:10 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:04:15 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack phila
06:04:15 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about labeling
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06:04:34 <npdoty> present+
06:04:35 <tara> @phila: worked on this for a long time (25 yr), "Internet Content Rating Assoc
06:04:46 <AramZS> q+
06:04:46 <tara> ...labelling does not work (based on my experience)
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06:05:14 <tara> ...is like P3P. What do you do about unlabelled site/content.
06:05:27 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:05:34 <npdoty> q+ on brainstorming possible work, not on stopping every proposed area of work
06:05:37 <tara> verifiable credentials is more promising (limited disclosure)
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06:05:45 <smcgruer_[EST]> Nina: How does VC if content provider doesn't want to play?
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06:05:56 <smcgruer_[EST]> Phil: Absolutely doesn't work if they don't want to play. Same problem.
06:05:59 <michaelficarra2> q+
06:06:14 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... There are many harms beyond adult content, as you said
06:06:41 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We need to do something about it, but bad actors will be bad actors
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06:06:49 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:07:06 <michaelficarra2> can we have a way to get on the queue without internet connection? I keep getting booted off
06:07:32 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:08:03 <smcgruer_[EST]> manu_: Wanted to point out some work in the area (sorry we weren't at the workshop)
06:08:12 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... ??? is from the True Age program, non-profit in USA, age verification platform using VCs
06:08:20 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Been in production 2 years, 150k retail locations in USA
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06:08:34 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... There are people at W3C with deep experience with age-gating
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06:08:42 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... It is retail, not online, but it is using VC
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06:08:51 <tara> Platform: TrueAge
06:08:53 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We should take those learnings into account
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06:08:58 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:09:00 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack manu_
06:09:07 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
06:09:15 <bvandersloot> present+
06:09:27 <smcgruer_[EST]> manu_: There are some very large players in this space already
06:09:36 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... ??? sells 55% of alcohol in USA
06:09:40 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... They serve millions of age checks a day
06:09:47 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... They already have published standards for this
06:10:01 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... I hope whatever work is done next, coordinates with True Age, with ???, with the VC working group
06:10:14 <smcgruer_[EST]> ???: +1, would be nice if we could graduate from underage to age appropriate
06:10:18 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:10:51 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack AramZS
06:11:01 <timcappalli> q+
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06:11:10 <smcgruer_[EST]> AramZS: +1 to what was said about labeling - anything that requires that an external entity be labelling the age safety or content on the web is unworkable
06:11:15 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... A lot of free speech problems
06:11:37 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... The way this should work is if I believe my content is 18+, i should be asking if this person is 18+, not waiting for someone else to rate me
06:11:41 <smcgruer_[EST]> Ben: That means you're rating yourself
06:11:54 <smcgruer_[EST]> AramZS: Whole range of rating is problematic - movies, comics, etc
06:11:55 <npdoty> National Association of Convenience Stores (NACS) was one of those references from Manu
06:12:03 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... People are put in spaces that are bad, that creates corruption
06:12:12 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... It should be self-attested
06:12:29 <smcgruer_[EST]> ???: Unfortunately the legistlation does not agree with you in many countries
06:12:32 <npdoty> self-attested would be an example of content rating by the service provider
06:12:35 <smcgruer_[EST]> s/legistlation/legislation
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06:12:45 <smcgruer_[EST]> AramZS: Want to make sure we're not adding tools to allow others to [missed this]
06:12:55 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:12:55 <mt_hates_irc> s/???:/aram zucker-scharff:/
06:13:10 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:13:11 <mt_hates_irc> oops, that's not good, that was Hadley Beeman instead
06:13:14 <dveditz> actually that reply was hadley
06:13:21 <npdoty> many businesses already do this, for existing parental controls, whether we like it or not (both self-rating and labeling others, with kinds of heuristics)
06:13:31 <AramZS> s/[missed this]/rate us
06:13:39 <smcgruer_[EST]> ???: Framing for this workshop, for me, this was a workshop we should have held years ago
06:13:51 <dveditz> s/aram zucker-scharff/Hadley Beeman/
06:13:54 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... The technical community keeps saying we won't engage, but this is what happens when we don't engage
06:13:57 <hadleybeeman> s/???/mnot
06:14:01 <dveditz> (dunno if that works)
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06:14:08 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Its not what we're going to introduce here, it's already here, and we're going to be stuck with what is here
06:14:19 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... So we have to hope that the current thing eventually fails, and we build a good thing that can be adopted next
06:14:37 <smcgruer_[EST]> AramZS: I agree we need some sort of age controls, but I think the context in which we present them and how we setup the power dynamics are extremely important
06:14:39 <smcgruer_[EST]> Ben: +1, yes
06:14:44 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... was discussed at the workshop
06:14:45 <npdoty> q+ andrewcampling
06:14:46 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:14:52 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack npdoty
06:14:54 <Zakim> npdoty, you wanted to comment on brainstorming possible work, not on stopping every proposed area of work
06:15:07 <smcgruer_[EST]> npdoty: Appreciate the passionate viewpoints!
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06:15:45 <bvandersloot> q?
06:15:46 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... I expect we need a spectrum of solutions, of which some of us will think they are not a good choice
06:16:04 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Handling an imperfect situation is hard, I don't think we're looking for a single solution
06:16:07 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:16:24 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack michaelficarra
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06:16:50 <smcgruer_[EST]> michaelficarra: A lot of the things we're talking about seem to be focused on is age above a certain range
06:17:01 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... But the opposite problem is actually interesting too, e.g. creating safe spaces for teenagers only
06:17:13 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Difficulties with overage persons entering those spaces
06:17:18 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Is this in scope?
06:17:25 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:17:31 <npdoty> it might be a different problem, but it's a certainly a relevant/related problem
06:17:35 <smcgruer_[EST]> Ben: It was discussed at the workshop, hard problem
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06:18:01 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:18:12 <npdoty> ack timcappalli
06:18:12 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack timcappalli
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06:18:20 <tara> The Advanced Persistent Teenager issue
06:18:23 <rbyers> present+
06:18:24 <smcgruer_[EST]> timcappalli: This has potential to impact existing tech, like passkeys
06:18:29 <rbyers> q+
06:18:32 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... People are using passkeys to do this now, which is really bad
06:18:38 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Since you can share passkeys
06:18:43 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:19:04 <npdoty> I saw that announced more widely on Monday, before that I thought it was just speculative
06:19:23 <smcgruer_[EST]> alexis_hancock: What I mostly see around risk of youth or minors is [??] risk
06:19:27 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... There won't be one technical solution
06:19:37 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Age verification doesn't teach kids to be safe online
06:19:44 <hadleybeeman> q+
06:19:46 <snek> s/[??]/contact/
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06:19:54 <dezell> q+ to talk about "age over' and the importance of advocacy
06:19:56 <bvandersloot> q?
06:19:56 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... So we want to be able to find solutions that have unlinkability, etc
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06:20:07 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... To help decouple from data brokers
06:20:15 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We see data brokers working with age verification systems to gather data
06:20:20 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... I want to see us break away from that
06:20:27 <npdoty> q+ on abuse reporting (not for content restriction but for other harms)
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06:20:40 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We won't find a perfect solution, but we can find a collection of solutions that I think can help
06:20:44 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:20:59 <mt_hates_irc> age verification only partitions people by age, it does nothing to create safe spaces (or to keep people out of unsafe spaces)
06:21:03 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... A lot of this is around social, and there's no technology that fully solves social
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06:21:37 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We spent a lot of time debating perfect vs good, whether we should step away or not
06:21:44 <syllaal> q+
06:21:56 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We are still trying to fight age verification laws so people can still have anonymity
06:22:00 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... But its likely to be here a long time
06:22:06 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:22:20 <AramZS> +1 - we should be very limited here in terms of what we provide - a specific signal of age range but not broad context and as little meaning to that signal as possible.
06:22:36 <tara> ...how can we combine solutions
06:22:49 <AramZS> q+
06:22:51 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack andrewcampling
06:23:23 <smcgruer_[EST]> andrewcampling: +1 that the focus shouldn't just be age verifying kids to keep them off of adult sites, but also the inverse, as was said
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06:24:02 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... let's not ignore the harms also of NOT age verifying
06:24:09 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... there are harms of doing it, but also the opposite
06:24:16 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
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06:25:05 <smcgruer_[EST]> martin: Quick interjection, one thing that keeps coming up is question of outright illegal content
06:25:28 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... There is a limit to how much we can solve illegal content
06:25:49 <smcgruer_[EST]> andrewcampling: I think there is an overlap, where the pathway to creating the illegal content comes through legal channels to start with
06:25:54 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:25:58 <npdoty> most of the age verification proposals are not focused on distribution of illegal abuse material -- those aren't suited to cooperative mechanisms of age-verification (because they aren't compliant, clearly)
06:26:14 <smcgruer_[EST]> ???: Major theme at workshop was that these mechanisms are not perfect
06:26:31 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Think the regulations were not written with that in mind
06:26:37 <AramZS> s/???:/mnot:
06:26:38 <npdoty> s/???: Major theme/mnot: Major theme/
06:26:55 <tara> ack rby
06:26:55 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Being able to verify the outcomes to say that age verification does come with a reduction in harm is very valuable
06:27:18 <smcgruer_[EST]> rbyers: We definitely should have done the workshop 3 years ago, but I disagree that its too late now
06:27:51 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... My example is Digital Credentials - we've been challenged, its been hard, its not perfect, but we have to try and we're making progress
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06:28:07 <manu_> q+
06:28:19 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Digital Credentials in Chrome is seeing an uptake in usage already, using ZPK for adult content sites in UK and other age-restricting geographies
06:28:31 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Thats a standard in scope for W3C to influence, for this group to influence
06:28:38 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... If we can move and accept not perfect
06:28:45 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:29:07 <smcgruer_[EST]> mnot: One thing that comes up is that its not clear if DC is the solution
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06:29:23 <tara> ack had
06:29:26 <npdoty> note that if you suggest improvements, you might also hear that it needs to be too urgently deployed and so we don't have time to make those improvements
06:29:26 <manu_> q+ to ask if this work is really about age verification, or is it about ensuring protected spaces/communities online?
06:29:36 <smcgruer_[EST]> hadleybeeman: A lot of us in W3C have talked about how this tech won't work
06:29:40 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... How there's always a way around it
06:29:55 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... At the workshop, we talked about introducing concept of an acceptable failure level
06:29:59 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Bringing that to the regulators
06:30:13 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... And trying to shift the conversation policy side to be probablistic
06:30:21 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... To me, that unlocked a way to do good without being perfect
06:30:29 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
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06:30:39 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack dezell
06:30:39 <Zakim> dezell, you wanted to talk about "age over' and the importance of advocacy
06:31:02 <PaulZiv> +1 to Manu.  Especially with laws already on the books that do not delineate between adults and children’s.
06:31:04 <smcgruer_[EST]> dezell: We have a fairly successful age verification program
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06:31:09 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Largely because we're laser focused on one specific case
06:31:12 <bvandersloot> q?
06:31:18 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... In our case, we follow government policy
06:31:46 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... That keeps you from doing things that will infringe on free speech rights, court cases, etc
06:31:56 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Another thing. Privacy preserving works both ways
06:32:18 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... In my opinion, a bad actor's privacy is just as sacrosanct as others'
06:32:43 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We keep records and they are verifiable, but don't want to pollute data lakes with how old you are
06:33:02 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Finally, we focus on age-over. Just do that. Don't tell birthdates. Need to know basis.
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06:33:18 <dveditz> except different jurisdictions and cases need different age boundaries
06:33:18 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We can make headway in this, but need to choose where the battle happens
06:33:28 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We also need advocacy in the legislative process
06:33:35 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... You need to make a difference there too
06:33:36 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:33:38 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack npdoty
06:33:38 <Zakim> npdoty, you wanted to comment on abuse reporting (not for content restriction but for other harms)
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06:34:11 <smcgruer_[EST]> npdoty: Workshop was focused on restriction of access to content, where the restriction was age based
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06:34:21 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... the potential harms to children definitely not scoped to just that (maybe not even aligned)
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06:34:29 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... if we are going to look at the broader question of (child) safety online
06:34:35 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... might suggest other work that needs done
06:34:50 <mt_hates_irc> q+
06:34:50 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... reporting abusive websites, mechanisms for identifying bad situations
06:35:12 <bvandersloot> close the queue
06:35:12 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... not an area where we've done a lot of standards work at w3c, but I think it is an important area
06:35:20 <smcgruer_[EST]> Zakim, close the queue
06:35:20 <Zakim> ok, smcgruer_[EST], the speaker queue is closed
06:35:42 <tara> ack syllaal
06:35:54 <bvandersloot> ty, smcgruer!
06:35:56 <smcgruer_[EST]> syllaal: It is not too late to make an impact (from perspective of someone working in Germany)
06:36:04 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... EU is focused on wallet for age assurance (18+)
06:36:08 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... But everything else is left open
06:36:18 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Either technology agnostic, or very vague on what technology
06:36:31 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... And vague on being 'more or less sure'
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06:36:42 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... A lot of smaller companies really struggle to comply due to lack of guidance
06:36:56 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... So definitely not too late
06:37:11 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Also, whatever system is developed is agnostic to the use case.
06:37:27 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... can always be used for use-cases other than the legally required
06:37:35 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... that is a dilemma we have to face
06:37:44 <smcgruer_[EST]> q?
06:37:54 <npdoty> laser-focus on use case and agnostic to use case is a tough contradiction of advice
06:38:01 <tara> ack Ara
06:38:11 <npdoty> but I do think use case limitation would be relevant and significant
06:38:12 <smcgruer_[EST]> AramZS: We should aim for as minimal as possible a signal, store as little as possible (preferably nothing)
06:38:24 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... We will also have to figure out signals around users aging out of restricted area
06:38:25 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... No clear path at the moment
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06:38:31 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack manu_
06:38:40 <tara> ack manu
06:38:40 <Zakim> manu_, you wanted to ask if this work is really about age verification, or is it about ensuring protected spaces/communities online?
06:38:45 <smcgruer_[EST]> manu_: Is this really about age? Seems to be more about safe spaces for communities?
06:38:46 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Age is a subset use-case
06:38:53 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... I'm concerned we're going to over-optimize on age
06:39:01 <AramZS> It is about age because that's the specific thing that is required of us by law
06:39:29 <npdoty> I think that's a good example, actually. communities self-police their boundaries, and we should enable that.
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06:39:39 <AramZS> q?
06:40:01 <smcgruer_[EST]> ????: There is a big difference between things you self-assert for, versus things you are not legally allowed to declare (such as what age I am)
06:40:08 <smcgruer_[EST]> ack mt_hates_irc
06:40:22 <smcgruer_[EST]> mt_hates_irc: Different people have different conceptions of what the requirements are in the space
06:40:37 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... That includes things like privacy, and there are difficult conversations there in this space
06:40:46 <tara> s/????/hadleybeeman
06:40:53 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... Things like record keeping questions is a difficult question
06:40:53 <dveditz> what authority attests to your membership of the LGBT+ community? Kind of an offensive question, but if people can self-declare then the mechanism will fail to meet the age-gating legal requirements
06:40:59 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... So focusing on the requirements is important
06:41:02 <tara> q?
06:41:14 <smcgruer_[EST]> Ben: Want to thank everyone for coming, the chairs of the workshop
06:41:30 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... I think there are a few clear steps to take, we didn't quite get there but great conversation anyway
06:41:48 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... DC is one area, meta tag in WhatNot ? group tomorrow
06:41:54 <smcgruer_[EST]> ... If anyone wants to talk about all this, fine me
06:41:56 <smcgruer_[EST]> s/fine/find
06:42:02 <AramZS> I didn't want to further raise this topic with the limited time but I very much worry we will fall into creating a digital Comstock stamp and I'm not sure we've got a clear line avoiding that
06:42:28 <tara> Zakim, make minutes
06:42:28 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', tara
06:42:35 <tara> RRSAGENT, make minutes
06:42:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-age-restrictions-minutes.html tara
06:42:43 <npdoty> bvandersloot, do you have any links to share, re meta tag proposals, or whatwg meetings?
06:43:49 <tara> RSSAgent, end this meeting
06:44:10 <tara> RRSAGENT, set logs public
06:44:35 <tara> RRSAgent, bye
06:44:35 <RRSAgent> I see no action items