IRC log of a11yedge on 2025-11-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-irc

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RRSAgent, make logs Public

00:57:18 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina0

00:57:24 [janina0]

Present+

00:57:29 [janina0]

Present+

00:58:37 [janina0]

Meeting: Accerssibility at the Edte (A11yEdge) Community Group Community Grouyp TPAC 2025 Breakout

00:58:58 [janina0]

Date: 12 Nov 2025

00:59:08 [front-endian-jane]

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Chair: Janiona

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01:00:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]

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present+

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01:00:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+ jason

01:00:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]

agenda?

01:00:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Topic: TPAC Breakout 2025

01:00:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

01:00:51 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

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01:01:54 [jamesn]

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01:03:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: Overview

01:04:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... reminder of W3C code of conduct

01:04:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... link: https://www.w3.org/community/reports/a11yedge/CG-FINAL-a11yedge-capabilities-20251104/

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01:16:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger: Reviewed the outline structure

01:16:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... and the diagram

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01:22:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

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01:22:51 [giacomo-petri]

q+ Shadi

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01:23:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]

jason: Reminded that no visible widget is needed, and source is the preferred method

01:23:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... no magic

01:23:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

shahdi: we should think about authoring tools and user agents

01:24:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... in an ideal world, the 1st cloud would be in the source

01:24:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... and the 2nd cloud (user-authorized) would be in the browser

01:25:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... we are not in an ideal world

01:25:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... things do not happen in the authoring process, not in the browser

01:25:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]

scribe+

01:25:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]

shahdi: do we explain that?

01:25:50 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

01:25:52 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

01:26:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

01:26:15 [Lionel_Wolberger]

ack Shadi

01:27:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Shadi: IN an ideal world, anything missing in source would be added by source in a loopback

01:27:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... or for user preferences, the browser (user-agent) would ask, what does the user want

01:27:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]

jason: I pick up on the phrase you use, an ideal world

01:28:36 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... extremely rapid world, developers not keeping up, the ease with coding up sites that look great and are not necessarily accessible

01:29:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... post-source needs to be dev'd, tested and managed in the same way [and quality] of source

01:30:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q+

01:31:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]

shadi: yardstick not only WCAG, look to ATAG and UAG

01:31:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: We did consider linking to ATAG, we found it has not been maintained recently

01:31:34 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... that is a normative recommendation

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01:31:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... UAG was never accepted normatively, it remains in published note status

01:31:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... we do not get deeply into the user-agent

01:32:26 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... top of my mind: so many things are being mashed together: payment gateway, login authentication service

01:32:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... the user experience seems, to the user, as coming from a single domain, but it does not

01:33:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... pages are unique

01:33:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+ Chris

01:33:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

01:35:12 [Lionel_Wolberger]

ack Lionel_Wolberger

01:35:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger: How do you see monitoring of the eventual experience?

01:36:02 [Lionel_Wolberger]

shadi: I am addressing the domain of what the user gets, the additional things that are inserted (inserted libraries)

01:36:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... have the user-agent do the lifting

01:36:53 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... this is an evergreen discussion in W3C

01:37:03 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... UAG did not advance to normative status

01:37:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... user-agents can do a lot more than they are doing today

01:37:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... as a community we should think about getting more mileage out of user-agents

01:37:34 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... "There is no right font, size or color"

01:37:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... there is my particular need

01:37:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... that is best done on the user side

01:37:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... and most ideally done natively by the user-agent

01:38:09 [jamesn]

q+

01:38:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: Yes, since a user wants to take the same preferences everywhere

01:38:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... they may have multipel devices as well: a fire device, tablet, phone, computer

01:38:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]

shadi: exactly

01:39:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

01:41:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: We have tried, with our browsers, to address all types of disabilities

01:41:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... some new approaches build for one particular audience and requirements

01:41:41 [jamesn]

q-

01:42:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

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01:42:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]

jamesn: user agents can handle this

01:42:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... they sync preferences across devices

01:42:58 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... [there's a limit]

01:43:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... my color preferences on my phone are not necessarily what I want on my desktop

01:43:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

01:44:36 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

01:44:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

01:44:52 [giacomo-petri]

q+

01:45:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]

ack giacomo-petri

01:46:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]

giacomo-petri: I agree, user-agent can be the heavy lifter on font size, background color, etc

01:46:36 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... this can be done in authoring as well

01:47:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]

jason: We would welcome user-agents "taking up the mantle"

01:47:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: Should we reesume work on UAG?

01:48:15 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... current link, https://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/

01:49:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

01:50:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: How do we assert, which things can be defined, to move the industry forward

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01:51:01 [front-endian-jane]

q+

01:51:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... ATAG link, https://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/

01:51:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]

shadi: I did not intend for a11yedge CG to be tasked with this

01:51:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... I still ahve to read the report

01:51:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... I welcome this discussion

01:52:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

01:52:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]

front-endian-jane: portability issue with browsers

01:53:08 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... when an author's end installs an overlay

01:53:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... is that worse?

01:53:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... is there any other place where this technology can exist?

01:55:21 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger: State can be storedin a cookie, though that has privacy implications

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01:57:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, make minutes

01:57:38 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'make minutes', Lionel_Wolberger

01:57:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, end meeting

01:57:45 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been janina, Lionel_Wolberger, jason, Chris

01:57:48 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

01:57:49 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html Zakim

01:57:55 [Zakim]

I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye

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