00:57:13 RRSAgent has joined #a11yedge 00:57:17 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-irc 00:57:17 RRSAgent, make logs Public 00:57:18 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina0 00:57:24 Present+ 00:57:29 Present+ 00:58:37 Meeting: Accerssibility at the Edte (A11yEdge) Community Group Community Grouyp TPAC 2025 Breakout 00:58:58 Date: 12 Nov 2025 00:59:08 front-endian-jane has joined #A11yEdge 00:59:12 Chair: Janiona 00:59:48 ari has joined #a11yedge 01:00:10 Lionel_Wolberger has joined #a11yedge 01:00:18 present+ 01:00:26 kazuhito has joined #A11yEdge 01:00:27 present+ jason 01:00:31 agenda? 01:00:44 Topic: TPAC Breakout 2025 01:00:49 rrsagent, make minutes 01:00:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger 01:01:11 mehm8128 has joined #A11yEdge 01:01:54 jamesn has joined #A11yEdge 01:03:49 janina: Overview 01:04:00 ... reminder of W3C code of conduct 01:04:06 ... link: https://www.w3.org/community/reports/a11yedge/CG-FINAL-a11yedge-capabilities-20251104/ 01:04:34 JRJurman has joined #A11yEdge 01:05:13 Jem has joined #A11yEdge 01:07:19 giacomo-petri has joined #A11yEdge 01:09:17 nico has joined #A11yEdge 01:16:24 Lionel_Wolberger: Reviewed the outline structure 01:16:28 ... and the diagram 01:20:43 mehm8128 has joined #A11yEdge 01:22:29 q? 01:22:36 Remi has joined #a11yedge 01:22:51 q+ Shadi 01:23:08 nico has joined #A11YEdge 01:23:10 jason: Reminded that no visible widget is needed, and source is the preferred method 01:23:13 ... no magic 01:23:48 shahdi: we should think about authoring tools and user agents 01:24:31 ... in an ideal world, the 1st cloud would be in the source 01:24:42 ... and the 2nd cloud (user-authorized) would be in the browser 01:25:06 ... we are not in an ideal world 01:25:17 ... things do not happen in the authoring process, not in the browser 01:25:20 scribe+ 01:25:39 shahdi: do we explain that? 01:25:50 rrsagent, make minutes 01:25:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger 01:26:01 q? 01:26:15 ack Shadi 01:27:04 Shadi: IN an ideal world, anything missing in source would be added by source in a loopback 01:27:19 ... or for user preferences, the browser (user-agent) would ask, what does the user want 01:27:38 jason: I pick up on the phrase you use, an ideal world 01:28:36 ... extremely rapid world, developers not keeping up, the ease with coding up sites that look great and are not necessarily accessible 01:29:52 ... post-source needs to be dev'd, tested and managed in the same way [and quality] of source 01:30:17 q+ 01:31:10 shadi: yardstick not only WCAG, look to ATAG and UAG 01:31:29 janina: We did consider linking to ATAG, we found it has not been maintained recently 01:31:34 ... that is a normative recommendation 01:31:37 tidoust has left #a11yedge 01:31:46 ... UAG was never accepted normatively, it remains in published note status 01:31:55 ... we do not get deeply into the user-agent 01:32:26 ... top of my mind: so many things are being mashed together: payment gateway, login authentication service 01:32:41 ... the user experience seems, to the user, as coming from a single domain, but it does not 01:33:00 ... pages are unique 01:33:32 present+ Chris 01:33:35 q? 01:35:12 ack Lionel_Wolberger 01:35:31 Lionel_Wolberger: How do you see monitoring of the eventual experience? 01:36:02 shadi: I am addressing the domain of what the user gets, the additional things that are inserted (inserted libraries) 01:36:46 ... have the user-agent do the lifting 01:36:53 ... this is an evergreen discussion in W3C 01:37:03 ... UAG did not advance to normative status 01:37:11 ... user-agents can do a lot more than they are doing today 01:37:24 ... as a community we should think about getting more mileage out of user-agents 01:37:34 ... "There is no right font, size or color" 01:37:39 ... there is my particular need 01:37:47 ... that is best done on the user side 01:37:56 ... and most ideally done natively by the user-agent 01:38:09 q+ 01:38:13 janina: Yes, since a user wants to take the same preferences everywhere 01:38:31 ... they may have multipel devices as well: a fire device, tablet, phone, computer 01:38:37 shadi: exactly 01:39:49 q? 01:41:23 janina: We have tried, with our browsers, to address all types of disabilities 01:41:37 ... some new approaches build for one particular audience and requirements 01:41:41 q- 01:42:05 q? 01:42:36 achraf6 has joined #a11yedge 01:42:42 jamesn: user agents can handle this 01:42:51 ... they sync preferences across devices 01:42:58 ... [there's a limit] 01:43:20 ... my color preferences on my phone are not necessarily what I want on my desktop 01:43:45 q? 01:44:36 rrsagent, make minutes 01:44:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger 01:44:52 q+ 01:45:57 ack giacomo-petri 01:46:20 giacomo-petri: I agree, user-agent can be the heavy lifter on font size, background color, etc 01:46:36 ... this can be done in authoring as well 01:47:32 jason: We would welcome user-agents "taking up the mantle" 01:47:43 janina: Should we reesume work on UAG? 01:48:15 ... current link, https://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/ 01:49:46 q? 01:50:11 janina: How do we assert, which things can be defined, to move the industry forward 01:50:31 front-endian-jane has joined #A11yEdge 01:51:01 q+ 01:51:18 ... ATAG link, https://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/ 01:51:39 shadi: I did not intend for a11yedge CG to be tasked with this 01:51:42 ... I still ahve to read the report 01:51:48 ... I welcome this discussion 01:52:24 q? 01:52:55 front-endian-jane: portability issue with browsers 01:53:08 ... when an author's end installs an overlay 01:53:23 ... is that worse? 01:53:31 ... is there any other place where this technology can exist? 01:55:21 Lionel_Wolberger: State can be storedin a cookie, though that has privacy implications 01:57:35 kazuhito has left #a11yedge 01:57:38 zakim, make minutes 01:57:38 I don't understand 'make minutes', Lionel_Wolberger 01:57:45 zakim, end meeting 01:57:45 As of this point the attendees have been janina, Lionel_Wolberger, jason, Chris 01:57:48 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 01:57:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/12-a11yedge-minutes.html Zakim 01:57:55 I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 01:57:55 Zakim has left #a11yedge