14:51:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ixml
14:51:46 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-ixml-irc
14:53:26 <Steven> Meeting: Invisible XML Community Group
14:53:26 <Steven> Date: 11 November 2025
14:53:26 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:53:26 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
14:53:37 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2025Nov/0000
14:53:45 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:54:00 <Steven> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/10/14-ixml-minutes.html
14:54:03 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:55:48 <nico> nico has joined #ixml
14:55:53 <Steven> rrsagent, make logs public
14:55:56 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:59:36 <john1> john1 has joined #ixml
15:00:35 <Steven> Present: Norm, Nico, Steven
15:00:57 <Steven> Present+Bethan
15:01:04 <Steven> Present+John
15:01:56 <Steven> Present+Fredrik
15:02:38 <Steven> Topic: Accept the minutes of the previous meeting
15:02:46 <Steven> [Approved]
15:02:54 <Steven> Topic: Review of open actions
15:03:14 <Steven> 2025-10-14-a NW to add a link to Steven’s modularization paper to the list of papers
15:03:14 <Steven>   Completed
15:03:14 <Steven> 2025-10-14-b NW to summarize the design decisions that differ from SP's paper.
15:03:14 <Steven>    Completed
15:03:15 <Steven> 2025-10-14-c NW to update the README in the samples to make them CC0 explicitly.
15:03:15 <Steven>   Completed
15:03:15 <Steven> 2025-10-14-d SP to reply to Alain.
15:03:16 <Steven>   Completed
15:03:16 <Steven> 2025-10-14-e NW to fix the iXML grammar link in the GitHub README.
15:03:16 <Steven>   Completed
15:03:41 <Steven> Topic: Status reports
15:03:50 <Steven> Norm: Modularity implemented
15:04:09 <Steven> Steven: Oh yes, I need to comment on your email
15:04:39 <Steven> Frederik: I can automatically download a grammar from the command line
15:05:10 <Steven> ... using an ixml: prefix
15:05:42 <Steven> Norm: I believe my implementation recognises http: as a prefix for downloading grammars
15:06:16 <Steven> Frederik: I am also writing a YAML parser in ixml
15:07:05 <Steven> ... there is lots of data in YAML, but don't like the format of YAML, so I want to read the YAML grammars in a different way.
15:07:21 <Steven> Topic: New open issues
15:07:39 <Steven> #310 Not possible to set priority on rules
15:07:39 <Steven>   https://github.com/invisiblexml/ixml/issues/310
15:07:53 <Steven> Steven: I admit I misunderstood what was being said.
15:08:34 <Steven> Steven: I now understand it to be part of a larger issue about dealing with ambiguity
15:09:29 <Steven> ... I think there's a higher-level issue "Dealing with ambiguity", including subtraction and negation.
15:10:03 <Steven> Bethan: I don't think subtraction is about ambiguity, but exxpressing new things.
15:11:17 <Steven> s/xx/x/
15:11:34 <Steven> John: I use it to disambiguate
15:11:41 <Steven> ... such as keywords.
15:12:30 <Steven> Bethan: But it allows you to specify things that aren't otherwise possible.
15:13:36 <Steven> John: this is one of the places where pragmatics says in order to reduce ambiguity, I have two routes, set theory, or new rules.
15:14:07 <Steven> Frederik: I agree with John
15:14:44 <Steven> Bethan: One big difference that makes me feel they are different, are two use cases
15:15:30 <Steven> Norm: I characterise the distinction is that one changes how the parser works, the other determines how the serialisation is done
15:15:57 <Steven> Frederik: I don't think subtraction can be done by a larger grammar
15:16:30 <Steven> Bethan: I think most cases of subtraction can be represented in a grammar
15:16:55 <Steven> Norm: It would be useful to see examples
15:17:11 <Steven> Steven: I do think we need to do comparisons of the different methods
15:17:51 <Steven> Norm: I will add a new top-level  discussion item
15:18:13 <Steven> ACTION: Norm to create new higher-level issue for ambiguity
15:19:01 <Steven> ACTION: Norm to add Symposium to every agenda
15:19:22 <Steven> Subtopic #309 Feature request: Doubled "--" to disable the "-" suppressor marker … for faster iteration
15:19:22 <Steven>   https://github.com/invisiblexml/ixml/issues/309
15:19:37 <Steven> s/Subtopic/Subtopic: /
15:20:01 <Steven> Norm: I didn't understand what was being asked for
15:20:09 <Steven> Steven: I didn't see what the win would be
15:20:31 <Steven> John: I have a flag that says 'ignore marks' so that you get the whole parse.
15:20:50 <norm> Norm: I have a similar flag.
15:20:55 <Steven> ... a simpler technique, rather than '--', use "^", which is rarely used.
15:21:33 <Steven> Steven: Good point
15:21:53 <Steven> Bethan: OOr use a comment.
15:21:58 <Steven> s/OO/O/
15:23:00 <Steven> Steven: So resolved not to accept
15:23:16 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to reply to "--" issue
15:23:32 <Steven> Subtopic: #308 Not possible to specify an exact number of repetitions
15:23:32 <Steven>   https://github.com/invisiblexml/ixml/issues/308
15:24:37 <Steven> Steven: I don't feel there is a sufficient number of use cases
15:24:47 <Steven> Bethan: I think this is good
15:24:54 <Steven> Norm: I have sympathy for this.
15:25:12 <Steven> Bethan: This is just syntactic sugar
15:25:24 <Steven> John: It might be expensive for 8-22
15:25:55 <Steven> Steven: We need proposals for syntax then
15:26:44 <Steven> ... and implementation rules
15:27:14 <Steven> John: THe rewrites take us from + and * to recursion; for multiples we will end up with a large set of rules.
15:27:31 <Steven> ... I think it is much deeper to handle number of repetitions.
15:27:46 <Steven> Nico: ANd how about repetions with separators?
15:27:52 <Steven> s/AN/An/
15:28:05 <Steven> Steven: We should be consistent
15:28:43 <Steven> John: With exact numbers you can use a logarithmic approach. WIth ranges, it is harder.
15:28:51 <Steven> s/WI/Wi/
15:29:43 <Steven> Nico: It would be a way to specify IPv6 addresses
15:30:10 <Steven> Subtopic: #322 Extend Unicode version test to cover Unicode 16 and 17
15:30:10 <Steven>   This isn’t an issue, it’s a pull request from Gunther Rademacher
15:30:51 <Steven> Norm: It is added tests for new versions of Unicode
15:31:57 <Steven> Topic: Next meeting
15:32:09 <Steven> Norm: Regrets, but please meet without me.
15:32:16 <Steven> Nov 25th
15:32:28 <Steven> Topic: Symposium
15:32:52 <Steven> Norm: We already have two proposals.
15:32:59 <Steven> Bethan: Push on Slack!
15:33:20 <Steven> John: Meeting+1 is 9th December
15:33:42 <Steven> Norm: Let's do symnposium business on 16th
15:33:55 <Steven> s/symnposium/symposium/
15:40:14 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:40:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
15:40:35 <Steven> Regrets: David
15:42:46 <Steven> s/THe/The/
15:43:16 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:43:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
15:44:57 <Steven> s/Frederik/Fredrik/G
15:45:01 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:45:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven