21:50:59 RRSAgent has joined #wcag2-non-latin 21:51:03 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/11/10-wcag2-non-latin-irc 21:51:03 RRSAgent, do not leave 21:51:04 RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight 21:51:04 RRSAgent, make logs public 21:51:06 Meeting: WCAG 2.2 and non-Latin languages 21:51:06 Chair: Kevin White 21:51:06 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2025-breakouts/issues/38 21:51:06 Zakim has joined #wcag2-non-latin 21:51:07 Zakim, clear agenda 21:51:07 agenda cleared 21:51:07 Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe 21:51:08 agendum 1 added 21:51:08 Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy 21:51:09 agendum 2 added 21:51:09 Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session 21:51:10 agendum 3 added 21:51:10 Zakim, agenda+ Discussion 21:51:10 agendum 4 added 21:51:10 Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues 21:51:11 agendum 5 added 21:51:11 Zakim, agenda+ Adjourn / Use IRC command: Zakim, end meeting 21:51:11 agendum 6 added 21:51:11 breakout-bot has left #wcag2-non-latin 23:09:06 kevin has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:09:16 zakim, start meeting 23:09:16 RRSAgent, make logs Public 23:09:18 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), kevin 23:09:37 meeting: WCAG 2.2 and non-Latin languages 23:10:07 rrsagent, make minutes 23:10:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/10-wcag2-non-latin-minutes.html kevin 23:18:53 addison has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:28:56 present+ 23:29:11 present+ 23:29:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/10-wcag2-non-latin-minutes.html addison 23:30:40 kenneth has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:30:45 shawn has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:30:59 Ben_Tillyer has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:31:00 r12a has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:31:06 JJ1 has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:31:11 alastairc has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:31:35 present+ 23:31:43 present+ 23:31:52 mehm8128 has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:32:10 JJ has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:32:18 present+ 23:32:20 zakim, who is on the phone? 23:32:20 Present: addison, kevin, Ben_Tillyer, alastairc, JJ 23:32:28 present+ 23:32:37 giacomo-petri has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:32:40 present+ 23:32:41 scribe+ 23:32:42 MURATA has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:32:47 present+ 23:32:47 present+ 23:33:37 mbgower has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:33:41 janina0 has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:33:42 present+ 23:33:42 Remi has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:33:48 Present+ 23:33:49 Kevin: I'll do a quick intro to the problem, then pass over to Murata-san. Goal is to have discussion about the problem as it is, potential solutions, and find a way forward. 23:33:54 Bobby has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:33:57 Makoto has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:34:06 Slideset: https://www.w3.org/2025/Talks/TPAC/wcag-non-latin/ 23:34:08 present+ 23:34:09 Siri has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:34:47 [Slide 3] 23:34:55 Kevin: Access for all is a key pillar 23:35:00 [Slide 4] 23:35:18 Kevin: So is internationalization. Led by Internationalization Activity, works with W3C WGs 23:35:20 [Slide 5] 23:35:43 Kevin: The overlap with accessibility is there are considerations to support reading disabilities and low vision. Focus on SC 1.4.8 Visual Presentation and 1.4.12 Text Spacing 23:35:51 [Slide 6] 23:36:14 Siri has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:36:26 Kevin: For 1.4.8, this is about visual presentation for blocks of text, requires a mechanism to be available to change a number of characteristics about the block of text, e.g. color, width, spacing 23:36:29 [Slide 7] 23:36:50 Kevin: For 1.4.12 about text spacing, there is no loss of functionality if these features are set for the text 23:37:15 ... doesn't require that these features be there, but if you change the features to those, there is no loss of functionality 23:37:24 q+ to say what about Reflow? Also, do any of the text alternative guidelines factor in? 1.1.1, 1.2.1-1.2.8? 23:37:33 [Slide 8] 23:37:44 Kevin: If the presentation feature is not used within the language: nothing 23:37:45 [Slide 9] 23:37:56 Kevin: For users of those languages, this means people with reading disabilities are not supported 23:38:05 daniel-mac has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:38:12 [Slide 10] 23:38:38 Kevin: There are requirements in development for WCAG 3 to address this. One is the foundational requirement: Readable Blocks of Text 23:38:53 ... for the specified language, you need to meet at least these characteristics 23:39:10 ... since we can't cover every language, we have a series of guard-rail languages representing a number of different orthographies 23:39:22 ... try to align with the language closest to the orthography of the language you want to present 23:39:25 [Slide 11] 23:39:52 ... We currently only have data for 4 of these characteristics in one language; we don't know what we're missing 23:39:54 q+ 23:40:26 ... reminder that this is for WCAG 3, we're not looking to bring this particular solution back to WCAG 2 for various reasons 23:40:28 [Slide 12] 23:40:37 Kevin: There are several questions we need to explore and answer 23:41:02 ... what needs to change in 1.4.8 and 1.4.12, what features matter, what values need to be used 23:41:11 ... are there other SC that impact non-Latin scripts 23:41:35 ... and can we avoid breaking backward compatibility? This is important because WCAG 2 is embedded in legislations, so breaking backcompat has consequences; we need to be careful how to approach 23:41:49 ... now I'll pass over to Murata-san who has a possible approach 23:42:28 MURATA: I'm Murata Makoto, my family name is Murata. Long time member. Was member of original XML WG in 1997. 23:42:37 ... recently involved in EPUB3 23:42:40 Can share link to slides? 23:42:47 ... since then involved in Japanese DAISY consortium 23:42:58 ... now involved in @@ group which is a member of W3C 23:43:35 ... for those who can't see the logo: it's a logo of Don Quixote (windmill included) 23:43:54 ... here is an example of Ruby layout. First of all, you see the color is different. 23:44:18 ... secondly, the size of this Ruby is bigger than what is commonly available in printed books. Low-vision users require bigger Ruby annotations for obvious reasons 23:44:40 ... Why a different color? Because some users cannot distinguish Ruby base characters and Ruby annotations, and will mistake it for a single character 23:45:06 ... Provides even more features. For some users, the annotations are harmful, so it is possible to hide them 23:45:38 ... For others, additional annotations are available, so you can show or hide for e.g. many characters, or only difficult characters 23:46:18 ... however, I mistakenly didn't say anything about Ruby in the context of WCAG, because I mistakenly thought that PDF was outside the scope of WCAG 2. So I only recently learned Ruby is in scope. 23:46:37 ... Proposed SC 1.3.XX Ruby Annotations. When ruby is used, the association between the ruby base and its annotation(s) must be programmatically determinable. 23:46:56 ... Level A, because if the base-annotation association is lost, the intended meaning cannot be understood. This is critical. 23:47:11 ... Fortunately, if you use HTML or EPUB, the relationship is preserved by default. 23:47:35 ... PDF ~10 years ago would often export ruby as just a smaller font, losing the connection to parent text 23:48:10 q+ to ask about ruby support on non-web ict / mobile apps 23:48:14 ... Adobe has since addressed this in the PDF standard. Structured tags can represent the relationship, if you author with software that supports it 23:48:45 ... Unfortunately, quality still varies. A lot of people have been very pessimistic about e.g. TTS in PDF documents containing ruby 23:48:50 ... We have to make a difference 23:49:26 ... Second proposal: reformulation of notes in two SCs, that were created in response to CJK feedback. They are non-normative, ad-hoc, and do not fix the underlying issues. They function as an alibi, not a solution. 23:49:42 ... Intent: Some accessibility needs depend on the writing system. The goal (accessibility) is the same across languages. 23:49:49 ... Details e.g. appropriate line length and spacing may differ. 23:50:12 ... Need a way to express shared intent with distinct language-specific values. 23:50:30 ... Proposal: Natural-Language-Dependent Requirements (1.3.x) 23:50:54 ... SC stays unified; only specific parts vary by language. WCAG may reference external layout specs e.g. JLReq 23:51:05 ... this makes WCAG work for all writing systems without splitting WCAG into pieces. 23:51:26 q+ to ask about the difference between what works in a language system, and what is accessible. 23:51:27 ... I have written down complete proposals for each of these changes in the GitHub repository, for the purpose of this breakout session. 23:51:33 proposals https://github.com/w3c/tpac2025-breakouts/issues/38#issuecomment-3506486553 23:51:40 ... I don't think there's time to go into the full details in this session, but I wanted to cover the basic principles here. Thank you. 23:51:47 Kevin: Thank you Murata-san. 23:52:33 mbgower: Kevin, you had a slide earlier about other potential SCs with non-Latin languages. There are a couple I'd like to suggest: Reflow, and I wonder if any text alternative language is dependent 23:52:34 q+ 23:52:55 ... Potentially goes all the way up to Page title. Wondering if anyone has considered/verified 23:53:09 ... The other things in terms of that excellent presentation, there've been a few things on my mind. 23:53:30 ... We have 4.1.2 Name, Role, Value, specific for UI components (operable things). I've been wondering if we should have that attribute for non-control components. 23:53:41 ... That could get a little messy, but maybe something more refined than what's in 1.3.1 Information and Relationships. 23:54:00 +1 to 4.1.2 variant for non-controls 23:54:04 ... 1.3.1 is kind of the "kitchen sink" (everything gets put in there that isn't somewhere else), but I could see where you could have a situation for Ruby technology 23:54:26 ... I hate how 3.1.4 Abbreviations is set up right now, it's this really scripted thing that says if you have an abbreviation, have a way of expanding the form or meaning 23:54:50 ... related/overlap with 3.1.6. Both are AAA. Wondering if this is getting close to the situation with kanji/kana 23:55:12 q? 23:55:14 ... There's a few things I'd like to hook these things on, I don't think they work in the AAA situation, but I think what Murata-san presented can work for more than just Japanese 23:55:16 ack mbgower 23:55:16 mbgower, you wanted to say what about Reflow? Also, do any of the text alternative guidelines factor in? 1.1.1, 1.2.1-1.2.8? 23:55:20 ack addison 23:55:33 addison: I'm the current co-chair of the Internationalization WG 23:55:45 ... This is not the first time we've talked about this, either within Internationalization or with WCAG 23:56:02 Siri has joined #wcag2-non-latin 23:56:10 s/really scripted/really prescriptive 23:56:21 ... In our group we've discussed the approach Kevin showed, and we feel uncomfortable as not covering enough different languages and not providing a framework for further languages to be added in as we discover more needs 23:56:41 ... maybe some values will work just as well across certain languages for a specific item but not all 23:56:42 s/3.1.6/3.1.6 Pronunciation 23:56:43 Q{ to intro AAC 23:56:57 q+ janina0 23:57:01 ... we want to push for having a sufficient framework in place, and then be able to connect the framework to things as we learn them 23:57:08 ... like what Murata-san suggested in his presentation 23:57:13 s/Q{ to intro AAC// 23:57:26 ... would not affect backwards compatibility, as the existing things don't know about it 23:57:38 ... I don't have a solution baked, but I think the shape of the problem and how we approach it is important 23:57:39 ack jj 23:57:39 JJ, you wanted to ask about ruby support on non-web ict / mobile apps 23:57:52 q+ 23:58:03 JJ: I'd like to ask about the support, if you know, for Ruby in non-web technologies, maybe also in mobile apps - how is that support? Would they be able to achieve the same things? 23:58:16 We already have a sufficient technique H62: Using the ruby element to meet SC 3.1.6 Pronunciation which is close to Murata-san's proposal. 23:58:16 ... would we be able to add new or update existing SCs to add any nuance? 23:59:48 Murata: I am writing a document about TTS support of Ruby, and major companies are interested in what I am writing 23:59:48 ... On mobile devices, the characters are too small. 23:59:48 ... There may be other ways of presenting, e.g. different colors, parenthesized notes 00:00:19 @@1: [ Discusses character sets in Japanese and Chinese ] 00:00:48 ... Ruby has been supported in HTML for decades; some details were only finalized as of HTML 5, so it's an ongoing system 00:00:49 q+ to say that SC 3.1.6 was added based on inputs from JIS 00:01:03 ... We've just started to see how to use assistive technology 00:01:20 ack me 00:01:20 alastairc, you wanted to ask about the difference between what works in a language system, and what is accessible. 00:01:24 Bopomofo Layout by HTML ruby sample https://cmex-30.github.io/Bopomofo_on_Web/testpage/index.html 00:01:27 Murata: I know that Florian and fantasai are still trying to improve support of Ruby annotations 00:01:57 alastairc: When Kevin showed we had a table of languages with the ability to provide different values, one of the things we have generally held to is that the spec on its face needs to be testable. 00:02:06 s/@@1/Bobby/ 00:02:12 ... someone needs to be able to adjust the corresponding browsers in their browser 00:02:33 ... each time we try to add something, it will require republications. We don't want to have to go 2.3, 2.4, ... 00:02:41 >> we might have per-language or per-script standards, e.g. 3.2-JP 00:02:52 ... In WCAG 3 we wanted to get some baseline with reasonable coverage, and provide more specific documentation within informative docs 00:03:14 ... that's one of the difficult things I see for integrating this both in WCAG 2 and 3 00:03:40 ... We found a lot of information provided by the Internationalization TF in terms of what works in what writing systems, but not what's accessible across different writing systems, e.g. for people with low vision and other disabilities 00:03:59 Jemma1 has joined #wcag2-non-latin 00:04:09 ... the values we established, at least on the English side of things, were intended to provide a reasonable amount of flexibility so that even if people adjust things, it's enough to work with Latin languages 00:04:25 ... We haven't been able to do that for other languages, partly due to us not knowing where to look, so we have quite a bit of a gap there. 00:04:53 q? 00:04:56 ... Are there further accessibility issues with the visual aspect of Ruby? e.g. you mentioned they're quite hard to read on small screens. Are there equivalent accessibility features that it would be useful to have in the future for the visual display? 00:04:56 ack giacomo-petri 00:05:14 MURATA has joined #wcag2-non-latin 00:05:24 giacomo-petri: When we were talking about other criteria impacted, one of our clients in Japan were interested in using Contrast (Enhanced) because they feel that Japanese characters are more difficult to be read 00:05:32 ... maybe that's something to think about 00:05:32 q+ 00:05:50 ... Is it because of the reading level, or is it because symbols are difficult to perceive? Is it perceivable or understandable? 00:05:54 ack janina0 00:06:39 janina0: APA has been working to bring @@ communication that may be applicable to Ruby. We have no idea, whether it would be destructive in a CJK environment, is it testable, etc.? 00:06:58 s/@@ communication/Augmentative and Alternative communication (AAC)/ 00:07:08 s/@@/AAC/ 00:07:18 ack r12a 00:07:56 r12a: We're worried about the guard-rail approach partly because it doesn't cover nearly the full range of types of languages we'd like to cover, partly because it covers certain types basically the same 00:08:04 ... I think there are 2 things going on that we need to keep separate 00:08:17 ... You have some guidelines that say you need to be able to increase the size of the font without breaking anything 00:08:19 q+ to distinguish between WCAG 3 approach and WCAG 2 needs 00:08:38 ... but there's another aspect that there are particular features which are important for readability of the text, e.g. justification 00:08:56 ... in the Internationalization WG we are mostly concerned about how to capture that information. We don't think the current approach is sufficient 00:09:28 ... what we've suggested before and would like to suggest again, is to have something similar to what Alastair was saying, and have some kind of non-normative registry or additional documentation with values for spacing, etc. 00:09:41 ... also e.g. whether to require diacritics in Arabic 00:10:04 ... that information would grow over time 00:10:19 ... that might be a mechanism to move forward, as Alastair was saying 00:10:44 ... We talked a lot about Ruby today. In Internationalization there are concerns that Ruby is sometimes over-adopted in cases it isn't designed for 00:10:48 q+ Is that info about readaibility for everyone, or for people with disabiltiies? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WA7hHwP5/image.png 00:10:59 ... Ruby is designed specifically for CJK and perhaps Mongolian, and the features that are specified for the use of Ruby are specific to those languages 00:11:12 ... so your question was whether Ruby can be used for other languages; well the first question is what do you want to use it for? 00:11:13 q+ to ask whether the info is for readability for everyone, or for people with disabilities? 00:11:25 ... e.g. there are other alternatives for e.g. pronunciation 00:11:32 ... Ruby is not a linguistic glossing device 00:11:50 what's "glossing"? 00:11:52 ... there is no markup specifically for glossing at the moment. Ruby kind of does a kind of glossing, but it's very minimal and specifically designed for CJK 00:12:07 ... So please don't assume that Ruby is the panacea for all of your problems 00:12:32 ... Glossing = you will often see a piece of original text, with the phonetic transcription on another line, perhaps some semantic information on yet another line 00:12:45 q? 00:12:50 q+ 00:12:51 Sounds like the same problem as trying to use ARIA to solve other problems 00:12:53 ... Be clear about what you want to achieve by using Ruby 00:12:53 tzviya has joined #wcag2-non-latin 00:13:00 present+ 00:13:25 ... Recap: we would like to suggest you develop this additional language/script-specific documentation that grows over time, and be careful jumping on the Ruby bandwagon (don't overuse) 00:13:33 ack Makoto 00:13:33 Makoto, you wanted to say that SC 3.1.6 was added based on inputs from JIS 00:13:53 Makoto: On Japanese websites, we don't use vertical writing in general, but we do have vertical writing in ebooks. 00:14:22 ... 3.1.6 in WCAG 2: the first version of the Japanese standard published in 2004, there was a section about how to use Ruby for kanji characters when needed 00:14:29 ... I got involved in WCAG in 2005 to make sure it was included in 2.0 00:14:55 ... at that time, it was looked at as a Japanese-specific issue, but there was concensus that if we could look at it in a wider scope, it could be used further for internationalization 00:15:10 ... Also got sufficient technique H62, using ruby element to meet SC 00:15:21 ... I think this is very close to the SC proposed by Murata-san in this meeting 00:15:26 q+ 00:15:39 ack MURATA 00:15:40 ... I'm also curious to know if other languages such as Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese, have the same or similar language-specific issues 00:15:49 s/solve other problems/solve other problems such as OpenAI 00:15:59 MURATA: RE class of Ruby: is it only for phonetics? The short answer is no. 00:16:25 ... e.g. Enemy having friend as ruby. There are extreme cases in manga, but also lots of examples in textbooks of describing background information. 00:16:28 Siri has joined #wcag2-non-latin 00:16:34 ... This is arguably an abuse, but this is the way it has been for a long time 00:16:43 ... so it is hard to tell the common use of Ruby. 00:17:13 ... for textbooks in high school it's not necessarily so cut and dry, and in manga/novels who knows 00:17:20 sometimes it has multiple uses at the same time, cf. double-sided ruby 00:17:36 ... I have some motivation to separate language-dependent requirements into other documents. However, I can't live with first-class and second-class citizen languages 00:17:48 ... where first-class is covered in normative document while second-class is relegated to informative. This is discrimination. 00:17:49 q? 00:17:53 ack kevin 00:17:53 kevin, you wanted to distinguish between WCAG 3 approach and WCAG 2 needs 00:18:24 Kevin: We talked about the WCAG 3 approach, and I confess I introduced the first case. I was mostly hoping to focus on WCAG 2 in this conversation today. 00:18:34 ... There's still room to tweak the WCAG 3 approach. 00:18:44 ... I don't think we're looking to overuse/abuse Ruby for things it wasn't intended for 00:19:06 ... The initial goal from Murata-san is how to resolve Ruby in PDF, since it's already part of the specification 00:19:10 ack me 00:19:10 alastairc, you wanted to ask whether the info is for readability for everyone, or for people with disabilities? 00:19:15 q- 00:19:33 alastairc: There was talk about the readability aspect. My original question: is that readability for everyone, or specific values for people with disabilities? 00:19:52 ... Kind of a joke in the WG: if it's rubbish for everyone, that's not our remit, our remit is improving things for people with disabilities 00:19:57 ... so I really want to be clear about that question 00:20:04 q+ 00:20:39 ... RE Murata-san's comments, if we didn't have this approach of including a few languages normatively (very happy to discuss which ones and adjust), we can't then include everything normatively, so then everything would be informative 00:20:48 q+ 00:20:51 ack Bobby 00:20:51 ... this would lead to a very generic normative requirement, which then leads to problems with testability 00:21:52 q+ to say that WCAG currently does not prescribe font size; just ability to resize and manipulate 00:21:52 q+ 00:22:10 Bobby: About the complexity of han characters, it's more about the complexity of the font. In Japan, an article is composed by han characters and some kana. In other Asian languages the optical size is even smaller. 00:22:20 q+ 00:22:31 ... I want to know if the optical size of the font is discussed in WCAG. We can adjust optical size in variable fonts now 00:22:43 ack addison 00:22:48 q+ on optical sizing 00:23:07 addison: Alastair, I hear what you're saying, I think testability is important, and I think just having a big informative soup is not as helpful as we'd like. 00:23:31 ... at the same time I think we struggle with looking at things, and thinking there could be requirements that might seem reasonable for Western European languages, that might be unreasonable for others. 00:23:44 ... we would want a way to clearly state that those values do not apply to those other languages. 00:23:54 ... we should also be able to denote which values do apply across the board 00:24:30 ... and then there may be some requirements that only make sense for some languages, and may be completely inapplicable to Western European languages 00:24:47 q+ to also say that it would be fine to have requirement that doesn't apply to all 00:24:56 ... you could consider separate documents to collect this information. Unicode has CLDR to collect information about different locales; maybe we could use their inheritance model? 00:25:59 r12a: In internationalization we share the concern Murata-san has about first-class languages in the normative document. I guess we envisage that all of such information would be kept in separate documents 00:26:27 ... you can still test for some things, even if they're not described in the normative document. Or do you only test things that are normatively described? 00:26:32 alastairc: Generally, yes 00:26:52 kevin: From a regulatory perspective, the normative text is all that the regulation references 00:26:57 q+ 00:27:21 r12a: You're always going to have that problem that you can only be normative for a small number of languages, and that starts to be problematic 00:27:21 ack r12a 00:27:29 ack mbgower 00:27:29 mbgower, you wanted to say that WCAG currently does not prescribe font size; just ability to resize and manipulate 00:27:37 q+ to say there are approaches. and WCAG 2. 00:27:49 mbgower: Responding to Bobby's question, there are no requirements to specify text size, closest we get is assessment of size in context of contrast 00:28:04 ... only other thing close to that is in 1.4.8 Visual Presentation 00:28:27 ... In most conventions, there is an assumption of 20/20 vision that things are based on, e.g. traffic signals 00:28:44 ... if the font size is so small that nobody can read it, it's not an accessibility problem 00:28:57 ... figure out what size is good enough, then require it to be transformed by size and spacing 00:28:58 ack MURATA 00:29:10 zakim, please close queue 00:29:10 ok, alastairc, the speaker queue is closed 00:29:21 MURATA: There are lots of rendering techniques for Ruby for accessibility, e.g. widening the gap between base and annotations 00:29:30 ack alastairc 00:29:30 alastairc, you wanted to comment on optical sizing and to also say that it would be fine to have requirement that doesn't apply to all 00:29:36 ... these are not required in WCAG. What is required is the underying representation and rendering. This is what my SC entails. 00:29:59 alastairc: RE sizing, as Mike covered, there is an assumption that the default is readable, but people with disabilities will need to increase it 00:30:26 ... RE addison, it's fine if we can do exclusions, it's when you get to large lists of differing attributes where it can get unwieldy 00:30:36 ... we do have mechanisms for WCAG 3, e.g. assertions relying on third-party resources 00:30:53 ... we don't have those options available in WCAG 2 00:30:55 ack shawn 00:30:55 shawn, you wanted to say there are approaches. and WCAG 2. 00:31:20 shawn: It's good to look at what some thoughts were on WCAG 3 and to get some guidance for that. 00:31:33 ... I also want to help us, as we move forward, to keep in mind that we are eager to see what we can do in WCAG 2. 00:32:08 ... Someone had said if it's not in the normative part of WCAG 3 then it's not in regulation, and that's not necessarily true. We're thinking of writing a policy document which can be more explicit about referencing additional resources 00:32:31 alastairc: to wrap up, this isn't the end of our conversation. The next chunk of time for AGWG at TPAC is looking at upcoming changes to WCAG 2 00:33:17 ... we're going to try to take on board what Murata-san has presented. It would be helpful Kevin if you could grab a couple of people during the next break, as we do have some gaps 00:33:28 addison: Let's keep the conversation going, let's find ways to keep talking about it 00:33:47 alastairc: And we've got some movement on the WCAG side now, which we didn't before 00:33:52 RRSAgent, draft minutes 00:33:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/10-wcag2-non-latin-minutes.html kenneth 00:34:42 Tamsin has joined #wcag2-non-latin 00:34:54 Siri has joined #wcag2-non-latin 00:34:54 Ben_Tillyer has left #wcag2-non-latin 00:42:52 s/AAC group/@@ group/ 00:42:56 RRSAgent, draft minutes 00:42:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/10-wcag2-non-latin-minutes.html kenneth 00:44:57 janina0 has joined #wcag2-non-latin 00:52:56 janina0 has left #wcag2-non-latin 00:56:07 daniel-mac has left #wcag2-non-latin 01:13:18 Ben_Tillyer has joined #wcag2-non-latin 01:14:01 Ben_Tillyer has left #wcag2-non-latin 01:22:42 tidoust has joined #wcag2-non-latin 01:22:48 RRSagent, bye 01:22:48 I see no action items