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17:00:58 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:00:59 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Community Group
17:01:08 <gautierchomel_> Chair: wolfgang
17:01:15 <gautierchomel_> Scribe: gautierchomel
17:03:59 <gautierchomel_> present+ gautierchomel
17:04:05 <gautierchomel_> present+ wolfgang
17:04:11 <gautierchomel_> present+ breno
17:04:21 <gautierchomel_> present+ pedromilliet
17:04:36 <gautierchomel_> present+ jamesyanchak
17:04:57 <gautierchomel_> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/cbb7f340-6012-4a50-821b-560a3d8611b0/
17:05:22 <gautierchomel_> Breno: Thanks for the invitation, I have a presnetation to share.
17:05:58 <gautierchomel_> ... NEES is a research group located in Maceios, Brazil.
17:06:33 <gautierchomel_> ... we work a lot in education equity and digital transformation, often with administration and in link with public policies.
17:07:27 <gautierchomel_> ... Brazil's National Textbook Program (PNLD) is about 180k schools for which more than 10 publishers provide textbooks.
17:08:22 <gautierchomel_> ... The programme is managed by Ministry of education and FNDE (national fund for the developement of education. It is a very large program
17:08:41 <gautierchomel_> ... it provides free high quality education material.
17:08:53 <gautierchomel_> ... covers all stages of education
17:09:31 <gautierchomel_> ... recently it has been expanded to digital formats aligning with national policies on inclusive education.
17:10:08 <gautierchomel_> ... digital books is a part, but there is also a need to deploy, meaning we need a reading system. That's the task of my group.
17:10:44 <gautierchomel_> ... We develop the multiplateform reader and define format to be produced.
17:11:12 <gautierchomel_> ... we have publishers, pedagogical evaluators, technical anlysts, accessibility analysts
17:11:54 <gautierchomel_> ... and ressource analysts all of that to approve ressources and make sure they are high quality and accessible.
17:13:04 <gautierchomel_> ...  that means both pedagogical and technical analysis and quality assurance.
17:13:30 <gautierchomel_> ... ebooks include multimedia.
17:15:46 <gautierchomel_> ... it's a complex sequential process to make a textbook first, usually produced as PDF, summmited for pedagogical aspects, then if accepted, it will be converted as digital and enhanced with multimedia. At the end, the digital version is completely different, we have to re assess the pedagogical aspects.
17:16:05 <gautierchomel_> present+ MilenaRisi
17:17:12 <gautierchomel_> Breno: the digital version is the one that comes with full accessibility requirement, it has to be very well structured, standard compliant but also include accessibility for multimedia contents (video, audio, forms).
17:18:11 <gautierchomel_> ... given the complexity of the publications, this phase is crucial. The price negociation phase comes after.
17:18:41 <gautierchomel_> ... Then if an agrement is found, comes production and distribution.
17:19:23 <gautierchomel_> ... Analysts already use the reading system, I mean the same as the one, that is used by students.
17:19:48 <gautierchomel_> ... So our reading system is both used to study and to assess quality of the ebook.
17:20:34 <gautierchomel_> ... This production process is long, we know it could be made simpler if a digital versin was developped previously to the printed version.
17:22:07 <gautierchomel_> ... Once ebooks produced, then we need to deliver it to end users. We have connectivity issues in some parts of Brasil, including instable and bad connectivity. We have to deal with that scenario. Remeber that the ebooks include audio and video.
17:22:49 <gautierchomel_> ... we also have the protection concerns and need to use DRM.
17:24:17 <gautierchomel_> ... We want to have more interactivity like being able to perform exercices in the textbook.
17:25:12 <gautierchomel_> ... we built a e-textbooks taxonomy, published by edulearn in 2025. From digitized to intelligent passing by multimedia, interactive and immersive.
17:25:45 <gautierchomel_> ... That leads us to being interested in web publications
17:26:59 <gautierchomel_> ... the standard is not much updated, but we met EDRLab and understood how to use this format following up readium implementations.
17:27:25 <gautierchomel_> ... As the tools are open source we've been able to create a viable implementation
17:27:41 <gautierchomel_> ... with the help of the readium developers.
17:28:24 <gautierchomel_> ... we are working on tooll to ease publishers transition to this format to be able to fully use it along the described chain, from publishing to reading.
17:29:31 <gautierchomel_> ... so HTML5 is the creation format, we convert it today as EPUB but face restrictions on javascript and CSS3 which is not a burden anymore if we use Web Publication.
17:30:02 <gautierchomel_> ... also to mention, before we were using our own format, we have moved to standards and wish to follow up).
17:31:35 <gautierchomel_> ... The main move for us is to shift from OPF to JSON, then HTML files with no restrictions,  that's great.
17:32:32 <gautierchomel_> ... Web publication also ease the partial download which is important in our context with connectivity issues.
17:34:00 <gautierchomel_> ... It brings the best of Web and EPUB together in our view, and Readium implementation and help ease the onboarding for our dev teams, and for publishers.
17:34:25 <gautierchomel_> s/,and/and/
17:34:48 <gautierchomel_> s/and help ease/eases/
17:36:52 <gautierchomel_> Breno: our reader (LIP) is offline first and connected to a server that manages the publications,  the protection and well, serves on the go what is needed without extra.
17:38:09 <gautierchomel_> ... as challenges, we see a difficulty related to consistent rendering bvbetween plateform, but it's much better as web publication lower the need of code injection on the reading system side.
17:38:53 <gautierchomel_> ... connectivity and distribution is partially solved, but we also think about P2P content centric delivery (ipfs.tech)
17:40:12 <gautierchomel_> ... most of all, the move to web publication allows us to ease the creation of accesisble and interactive ebooks by publishers.
17:40:27 <gautierchomel_> ... are there questions?
17:41:42 <gautierchomel_> wolfgang: I am very happy to ear about a web publication manifest use case.  the web publication manifest is really about giving you the power of the web while maintaining a product separation as ebooks.
17:42:10 <gautierchomel_> ... I think you are really getting the best of this format.
17:44:15 <gautierchomel_> pedfroMilliet: Agree, it is about leveraging what digital can do the best for books! It's easier to understand if it's the same technologies of the web. We have less limits as content creators, more fun, more rich content for childrens.
17:44:33 <gautierchomel_> s/pedfroMilliet/pedroMilliet/
17:45:19 <gautierchomel_> Breno: it's a journey for publishers of course, but thanks to the help of EDRLab we are confident.
17:46:18 <gautierchomel_> ... we were able to prototype because the format is already readable with Thorium, an open source solution, we've been able to inject what we needed in the webview.
17:46:43 <gautierchomel_> ... It made the testing and prototyping easy.
17:47:26 <gautierchomel_> ... The direction is to interfer the less possible with the content,
17:47:53 <gautierchomel_> ... on the reading systel side, and EDRLab really understood that.
17:48:27 <gautierchomel_> pedroMilliet: I want to emphasis that building accessible interactivity is a great challenge.
17:49:42 <gautierchomel_> Breno: it's amazing what we can do on the web, we want to be able to do this in ebooks, not webapps. It's been a long time dream. It's hard and complex.
17:51:33 <gautierchomel_> ... An intersting example is the UNICEF publications, they are web based, to be readen online, embedd TTS and many things. We can install them as web apps. It is our goal to be able to achieve a similar experience but as ebooks, to ease disctribution, protection and make sure the reading experience is consistent so in a same reader.
17:54:58 <gautierchomel_> wolfgang: with interactivity, digital publishing is going forward, it means escaping from the paper reproduction. It allows for immersion, fun and participation. I think it is made for not all ebooks, not all publishers. It is good to see ebooks toughts as digital objects.
17:58:07 <gautierchomel_> Breno: ebooks allows to escape from the internet, we want no external content,  it's digital but in a package, not bringi,ng you to other places, you download and stay in the ebook, it's available for you. We ask publishers to think about pedagogy first and how to make it effective in digital. The format allows for this extension of the web experience.
18:00:03 <gautierchomel_> pedroMilliet: this tools from UNICEF are wonderfull, they would be interested in making them as ebooks, packaged and readable offline.
18:02:34 <gautierchomel_> wolfgang: the offline reading is one of the main reason to devlop web publication, it's a container, a knowledge reservoir available anytime in any situation. It makes it possible to take some chapters, the ones we need. There are countries with connectivity issues, but also places like schools, and we need to think about catastrophe also, the connectivity can be lost quite easily.
18:05:58 <gautierchomel_> rrsagent, make logs public
18:06:04 <wolfgang> Zakim, draft minutes
18:06:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', wolfgang
18:06:20 <gautierchomel_> rssagent, draft minutes
18:06:39 <gautierchomel_> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:06:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/05-publishingcg-minutes.html gautierchomel_
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