17:45:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pdf-aam
17:45:29 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/11/05-pdf-aam-irc
17:45:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:45:30 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Daniel
17:45:38 <Daniel> Meeting: PDF-AAM Teleconference
17:45:42 <Daniel> Chair: Daniel
17:45:45 <Daniel> scribe: Daniel
17:45:59 <Daniel> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2913bef6-b60b-4cfc-bd2c-97a7471bece0/20251105T100000/
17:46:00 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:46:00 <agendabot> agenda+ Substructures for figure tags
17:46:00 <agendabot> agenda+ Handling of actualText
17:46:00 <agendabot> agenda+ Link annotations and QuadPoints
18:00:54 <zkinsey> zkinsey has joined #pdf-aam
18:01:14 <zkinsey> present +
18:01:55 <Daniel> present+
18:03:41 <Paul> Paul has joined #pdf-aam
18:04:00 <zkinsey> present+
18:04:46 <Paul> present+
18:04:58 <Daniel> zakim, take up next
18:04:58 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Substructures for figure tags -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:05:38 <spectranaut_> spectranaut_ has joined #pdf-aam
18:06:00 <Daniel> Paul: The image would go inside the figure and the image gets the alt text
18:06:10 <Daniel> ... But it doesn't read anything that's inside the figure text
18:07:08 <Daniel> ... In PDF 2.0 there are scenarios where it'd be semantically appropriate to have substructures
18:07:30 <Daniel> ... We would need both the caption and the alt text to be read
18:07:57 <Daniel> ... There could be nested figures
18:08:25 <Daniel> zkinsey: We are curious how these tables in the AAM would look in these instances?
18:10:45 <Daniel> spectranaut_: You could format this info however it makes sense
18:11:11 <Daniel> ... I feel that there is conceptual difficulty here, it would be nice to have examples of this
18:11:37 <Daniel> ... If something has an alternative name, wouldn't it be read?
18:11:45 <Daniel> Zakim: That's AT behavior that we are observing
18:12:01 <Daniel> ... We are trying to write things up to mimic current implementations
18:12:28 <Daniel> spectranaut_: In the web there are things that can be named, not ignored, in the subtrees, and there are others that cannot
18:13:06 <Daniel> ... It'd be really nice to have more examples of the kind of structure trees that are causing problems for you to try to map them to similar HTML paradigms
18:13:37 <Daniel> Subtopic: Export 2
18:13:50 <Daniel> Zakim: We are working on this, figure is the main topic right now
18:14:25 <Daniel> ... I'd like to discuss in today's call to start creating a parent issue  to group these concerns for the second batch
18:14:53 <Daniel> ... What tasks do we need to do to the index.html?
18:15:15 <Daniel> ... We have our intro sections that shouldd be transferred to the HTML docs
18:15:31 <spectranaut_> https://w3c.github.io/pdf-aam/
18:17:41 <Daniel> Daniel: We should add the ED link to the PDF-AAM readme
18:17:42 <spectranaut_> There is a link under About: https://github.com/w3c/pdf-aam
18:18:21 <Daniel> zkinsey: What are next  steps to do?
18:19:57 <Daniel> Daniel: You can open as many PRs as you want but they should be focused
18:20:16 <Daniel> spectranaut_: There are previews from netlify
18:21:36 <Daniel> zkinsey: Once I run my convertion from google sheets to html, then we may need feedback even before opening these PRs
18:21:58 <Daniel> spectranaut_: No worries,if you have a proposal it's easiest to open a PR
18:23:19 <Daniel> zkinsey: I'll try to push these as PRs
18:24:06 <Daniel> spectranaut_: IF you could make available some information about the problems with the naming things before next week that would be very much appreciated
18:25:02 <Daniel> zkinsey: We don't necessarily see a naming issue, it's more the parent/child relation
18:25:22 <Daniel> ... What the naming convention in the AAM would look like
18:26:01 <Daniel> Paul: One is figure containing captions, that's the new rulee in PDF 2.0
18:26:49 <Daniel> zkinsey: There are disparities between 1.7 and 2.0. Which version should we be targetting for the first release?
18:27:12 <Daniel> spectranaut_: You could just have two role mapping tables and then subheadings for 1.7 and 2.0. Not everything changed
18:27:43 <Daniel> zkinsey: 75% of the structure are the same between these two versions. It's just some of them that we added in 2.0 or deprecated
18:28:50 <Daniel> Paul: I think it makes sense to have one section for 1.7 and another section for 2.0
18:29:24 <Daniel> zkinsey: Or maybe added rows
18:31:17 <Daniel> Zakim: For now let's stop ignoring 2.0 and discuss later whether we use different tables or sectionss etc
18:31:20 <Daniel> Paul: +1
18:32:08 <Daniel> Topic: Meeting duration
18:32:34 <Daniel> zkinsey: Let's first do the second export and then we may ask for an hour meeting
18:33:08 <Daniel> ... There are issues for now when it's not known how certain APIs are handling the tables
18:33:26 <Daniel> s/tables/the mappings/
18:33:49 <Daniel> spectranaut_: We should discuss these ones with the ARIA WG, which has expertise in these APIs
18:34:58 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:34:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/05-pdf-aam-minutes.html Daniel
18:35:49 <Daniel> s/the the mappings/the mappings/
18:35:52 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:35:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/05-pdf-aam-minutes.html Daniel