13:57:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #matf
13:57:24 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/11/05-matf-irc
13:57:24 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:57:25 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ
13:57:26 <JJ> Zakim, this is MATF 5 November 2025
13:57:26 <Zakim> got it, JJ
13:57:31 <JJ> Meeting: MATF 5 November 2025
13:57:37 <JJ> chair+
13:57:50 <shoobe01> present+
14:00:36 <JJ> regrets+ Joe_Humbert
14:00:43 <JJ> regrets+ GleidsonRamos
14:01:52 <JJ> agenda+ Change of Context Definition
14:01:55 <JJ> agenda+ User Agent definition
14:02:00 <JJ> agenda+ 3.1.2 Language of Parts
14:02:05 <JJ> agenda+ 2.1.2 No Keyboard Trap
14:02:09 <JJ> agenda+ Project management
14:03:43 <Tanya> Tanya has joined #matf
14:03:44 <quintinb> quintinb has joined #MATF
14:03:49 <quintinb> scribe quintinb
14:03:52 <JJ> scribe: quintinb
14:03:54 <Tanya> present+
14:04:50 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:04:50 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Change of Context Definition -- taken up [from JJ]
14:05:06 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/69#issuecomment-3440029594
14:05:32 <JJ> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/#dfn-change-of-context
14:07:48 <pauljadam> pauljadam has joined #matf
14:09:40 <JJ> q?
14:10:52 <JJ> Poll: do you agree with Jamie's proposed changes for "Change of Context"?
14:10:59 <shoobe01> +1
14:11:01 <Tanya> +1
14:11:07 <pauljadam> +1
14:11:12 <quintinb> +1
14:11:17 <JJ> +1
14:11:39 <JJ> Result: 5x +1
14:12:01 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:12:01 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- User Agent definition -- taken up [from JJ]
14:13:00 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/225
14:13:04 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/63#issuecomment-2824076194
14:15:20 <shoobe01> It is in 2.5.8 also, just discussed earlier today.
14:18:00 <quintinb> small discussion on how webviews relate to user agents
14:18:09 <Tanya> q+
14:18:43 <pauljadam> q+
14:18:50 <shoobe01> At least in the past, Android had X-Requested-With which could be detected above the UA string itself to find it's a webview, not a browser window.
14:19:11 <JJ> ack Tanya
14:19:45 <quintinb> Tanya I think it's interesting to check WCAG2ICT to make sure we're consistent - search on user agent - there is background there
14:20:13 <JJ> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/#user-agent
14:21:14 <JJ> ack pauljadam
14:22:20 <quintinb> pauljadam So any software that ... documents - are we being specific to mobile. Are we going to prefer content? I was wondering on the proposed drafts about not modifying the content (user agent) - because some modification can happen
14:22:30 <quintinb> Sorry pauljadam I tried my best
14:23:23 <pauljadam> basically worried that we should not say "but does not manipulate content" because you can actually inject HTML JavaScript CSS and change the display in a web view.
14:24:22 <pauljadam> And then an easy definition could be to say user agent is "application that retrieves and presents content"   "software" "app" "application" same thing but "app" does sound more mobile specific. And everything on a phone is an "app".
14:27:05 <quintinb> pauljadam is there is a distinction between viewing and authoring?
14:27:58 <Tanya> Q+
14:28:01 <JJ> ack Tanya
14:28:46 <quintinb> Tanya definition of user and software because we're looking at them separately and it can be interpreted differently. We should look at WCAG2ICT and how they do it
14:29:38 <JJ> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/#software
14:30:41 <pauljadam> software and user agent are basically the same thing in mobile, they're both apps or an app can have a web view so a user agent inside a user agent
14:31:25 <pauljadam> I think people think of software as desktop software and apps or applications as mobile software
14:32:57 <quintinb> Tanya the 3rd note is also confusing
14:33:36 <quintinb> pauljadam the techniques you use would be different.
14:34:36 <quintinb> Tanya this is a little chicken-egg - we need to make it clear for ourselves
14:35:04 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:35:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- 3.1.2 Language of Parts -- taken up [from JJ]
14:35:56 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/commit/19336f4d4228b5b90b8b99c8ccbe34f57b96b0ee
14:36:04 <JJ> Draft is ready
14:36:14 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:36:14 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- 2.1.2 No Keyboard Trap -- taken up [from JJ]
14:36:43 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/183#issuecomment-3469674049
14:38:55 <JJ> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc5
14:41:46 <quintinb> +1
14:41:52 <quintinb> and +2 to having less issues
14:42:08 <JJ> Poll: Leave non-interference section from WCAG2Mobile just like WCAG2ICT?
14:42:15 <Tanya> +1
14:42:22 <pauljadam> +1
14:42:24 <shoobe01> +1
14:42:29 <quintinb> +1
14:42:46 <JJ> Poll results: 4x +1
14:42:55 <JJ> move to next agendum
14:42:55 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Project management -- taken up [from JJ]
14:44:48 <JJ> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/147
14:45:05 <JJ> https://www.w3.org/2025/11/TPAC/schedule.html
14:51:54 <Tanya> q+
14:52:31 <JJ> ack Tanya
14:53:14 <quintinb> Tanya on the short term - meeting next week - how many attending TPAC?
14:53:36 <quintinb> Tanya It would be good to combine the definitions into one session to put the puzzle together
14:54:53 <quintinb> I'll be here next week - not TPAC
14:57:19 <quintinb> Bye!
14:57:47 <JJ> Zakim, list participants
14:57:47 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shoobe, Tanya
14:57:53 <JJ> present+ quintinb
14:57:57 <JJ> present+ pauljadam
14:58:00 <JJ> Zakim, list participants
14:58:00 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shoobe, Tanya, quintinb, pauljadam
14:58:08 <JJ> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/11/05-matf-minutes.html JJ