13:45:48 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 13:45:52 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-irc 13:46:05 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 13:46:12 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2958fbd0-8609-4d69-a040-ab7bd11bc6fb/20251030T150000/ 13:46:12 clear agenda 13:46:12 agenda+ Agenda Review 13:46:12 agenda+ Action Items 13:46:14 agenda+ Info Share 13:46:16 agenda+ Review RADAR Review 13:46:18 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 13:46:21 agenda+ TPAC Planning 13:46:21 Chair: Addison Phillips, Joel Sahleen 13:46:23 agenda+ Welcome new co-chair 13:46:25 agenda+ AOB? 13:46:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html addison 13:46:59 zakim, who is here but should be here instead in one and a quarter hour's time ? 13:46:59 I don't understand your question, r12a. 13:47:59 :) 13:49:55 regrets+ eemeli 14:20:40 addison has joined #i18n 15:00:23 present+ Addison, Atsushi, Richard 15:01:17 present+ Joel, Fuqiao 15:01:31 jsahleen has joined #i18n 15:01:59 scribenick: r12a 15:02:11 scribe: r12a 15:02:24 present+ Bert 15:02:35 15:02:02 15:02:35 Is that right? I don't remember how to set myself up a scribe anymore. 15:03:10 atsushi has joined #i18n 15:03:16 rrsagent, make minutes 15:03:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:03:36 zakim, take up agendum 1 15:03:36 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:03:39 agenda? 15:04:32 Well, technically, I should wait another minute or so. There might be one or two people who struggle in. 15:04:32 Emily has sent his regrets. I don't know about John Clemson. 15:04:32 But he sometimes… 15:04:34 has trouble when we're in this sort of… 15:04:36 In between time change. 15:04:38 space. 15:04:44 s/Emily/Eemeli/ 15:04:54 bigbluehat has joined #i18n 15:04:58 s/Clemson/Klensin/ 15:05:50 zakim, take up agendum 2 15:05:50 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:05:57 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues 15:06:06 #191 15:06:08 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/191 -> Action 191 ask for more time on web sustainability guidelines (on aphillips) due 2025-10-30 15:06:14 close #191 15:06:16 Closed -> issue #191 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/191 15:06:20 #190 15:06:21 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/190 -> Action 190 add a comment to i18n issue 2039's parent to indicate interest and call for early review/engagement (on aphillips) due 2025-10-23 15:06:32 addison: 15:06:35 #189 15:06:37 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/189 -> Action 189 follow up with shane carr about ecma repo automation (on aphillips) due 2025-10-23 15:06:37 he Webb Sustainability Guidelines, and I did that, and they gave us some, and gave for that. 15:06:38 So, post. 15:06:45 #187 15:06:46 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/187 -> Action 187 ping GOOG again for participation (on aphillips) due 2025-10-16 15:07:01 #185 15:07:01 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/185 -> Action 185 follow up with PLH on automating TC39 repos (on aphillips) due 2025-10-02 15:07:11 addison: 189, I'm trading email with Shane. We're gonna get that. 15:07:11 in place, but it's not finished. 15:07:14 #136 15:07:15 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/136 -> Issue 136 follow up on XML errata (by aphillips) [task] 15:07:35 … 87 I owe some more email back on that thread, 15:07:35 They haven't sent anyone, so we'll keep that for now. 15:08:18 #135 15:08:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135 -> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17 15:08:23 #33 15:08:23 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 15:08:26 addison: XML Irata. 15:08:26 Um, you'll remember… 15:08:26 that a year ago at this time, 15:08:28 A little over a year ago at this time, um, we noticed some… 15:08:30 errata should be published on XML… 15:08:32 1.05E. 15:08:34 And… there was no mechanism anywhere, and uh… Philippe and I… 15:08:36 went out to try to… 15:08:38 revivify… he went out to revivify, like, the XML errata list and so on. 15:08:40 #7 15:08:40 Um, so I need to touch base with him and see when we can get an actual errata. 15:08:40 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023 15:08:42 Published. 15:08:44 And as a reminder, the errata has to do with the isolate, the missing isolate characters in… 15:08:46 Or the addition of isolate characters divided by isolate. 15:08:48 #4 15:08:48 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023 15:09:03 zakim, take up agendum 3 15:09:03 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:09:11 addison: I saw no action on a waiting comment resolutions this week. 15:09:11 Respect Mike Shed is waiting. 15:10:05 zakim, take up agendum 4 15:10:05 agendum 4 -- Review RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:10:13 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1 15:10:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html addison 15:10:43 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:10:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:11:13 addison: we have no new incoming requests. 15:11:33 Fuqiao, and it's sushi… I noticed… 15:11:33 We have a lot of charter review… 15:11:33 items in I-18N request? 15:11:35 Do we close those? 15:11:37 On a regular basis? 15:12:15 scribeoptions: -implicit 15:12:15 addison: We have a lot of charter review… 15:12:15 items in I-18N request? 15:12:15 Do we close those? 15:12:17 On a regular basis? 15:12:24 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:12:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html Bert 15:12:40 fugiao: close the corresponding issue in IATM request. 15:12:55 CSS Coloradjust 1 is due tomorrow. 15:12:55 How's that coming, Bert? 15:13:16 addison: 'll add a comment to that later and close it. 15:13:27 ... Fuchao. I've given you until January to do the Web Sustainability Guidelines, uh, anything you want to say about it? 15:14:01 zakim, take up agendum 5 15:14:01 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:14:10 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending 15:14:33 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2040 15:14:33 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2040 -> Issue 2040 Missing internationalization/localizability from benefits (by aphillips) [pending] [needs-resolution] [t:loc_localization] [s:web-sustainability-guidelines] [ig:sustainableweb] 15:14:35 ...thinkthat's…that's…Certainlyenough.Ineedto…tookalookatit.Thinkoverall,it'sapretty…generaldocument.Idon'texpect…manyproblems.Imean,unlike…like,uh,WorkHat,theyhave…So,yeah,theyhavemorespecific…textmanytimes,butyeah,butthisguidelineis 15:16:07 addison: I also glanced at the sustainability guidelines, because that's always amusing. I did… I did, uh…I did file one. So maybe touch on that quickly. 15:16:24 ... It's an early days comment, so we can do a little more work on it. 15:16:51 fuqiao: Sounds good to me. They mentioned. accessibility, compatibility, you mentioned a lot of things 15:17:31 addison: I think there's maybe some… There's things in here that are kind of interesting to us. Um, like, if… if you're looking at that section and you scroll down a bit, and they talk about things like wireframes and prototypes, Um, there's a bunch of things in here that internationalization people and localization people also go, this is your chance to get, you know, to get it right. Uh, and avoid problems. Um… So 15:17:40 ... I think there's maybe some… There's things in here that are kind of interesting to us. Um, like, if… if you're looking at that section and you scroll down a bit, and they talk about things like wireframes and prototypes, Um, there's a bunch of things in here that internationalization people and localization people also go, this is your chance to get, you know, to get it right. Uh, and avoid problems. Um… So 15:18:20 fuqiao: wireframes. has less cost. 15:18:30 [[ 15:18:31 Incorporating wireframes, prototypes, and user testing into early product design cycles reduces money and effort otherwise wasted building features people will not use. 15:18:32 ]] 15:18:43 addison: I've been talking to some people about Um, a lot of people use the Figma product to design. things, and it's like, you can do You could do good things or bad things in Figma to make it possible to localize later. And if you do good things, then… 15:19:04 Use decorative design only when it enhances user experience. Remove unnecessary assets or those that do not enhance user experience or sustainability. Alternatively, make these optional and disabled by default. 15:19:10 ... then your product will probably be better. Um, is that sustainability? No, maybe, I don't know. 15:20:04 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2037 15:20:06 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2037 -> Issue 2037 I18N: Add guidance on robust text matching for searching, validation, and identifiers (by w3cbot) [close?] [tracker] [t:text_case] [t:text_n11n] [Agenda+] [s:web-sustainability-guidelines] [ig:sustainableweb] 15:21:37 addison: this is in the closed bucket, um… It had been Agenda plus. a while ago, um, and so I re-plussed it. 15:22:48 ... we don't want them to replicate our stuff, but maybe they should have pointers. 15:23:01 And I don't quite understand why these are… Related to sustainability. 15:25:08 Joel: here's a comment on there that says this duplicates IAT and work. There's assumption that all W3C work complies with I-18N standards. 15:26:22 xfq: Should we keep our tracker? 15:26:53 https://w3c.github.io/sustainableweb-wsg/resources.html#UX08-1 15:27:17 xfq: maybe we just close the tracker unless we find something else 15:27:51 addison: click on first section of URL - i clicked on Resources, and this is where it took me 15:28:14 ... these are external links, eg. WAI tutorial 15:28:24 ... how do we get our stuff in here? 15:29:36 xfq: this is not published on /TR, unlike the document we reviewed 15:29:48 addison: it's a draft Note 15:30:13 xfq: it's an interest group, so they can't produce Rec track docs 15:30:41 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/ig-sustainableweb-charter.html 15:30:50 IG instead of WG 15:31:23 atsushi: I don't understand how they structure their information 15:31:32 addison: seems to be in multiple files 15:32:01 ... i believe the goal is for sustainability to become a new horizontal 15:32:14 ... they were keep to learn from us how we work 15:32:32 xfq: last time i asked they had no plan, but who knows baout the future 15:33:01 addison: let's proceed with the review 15:33:19 agenda? 15:33:25 ... keep in mind how to inject our materials 15:33:45 zakim, take up agendum 7 15:33:45 agendum 7 -- Welcome new co-chair -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:34:12 addison: Joel has been appointed co-chair of this group 15:34:31 ... i'll be stepping down around the end of the year 15:34:41 ... it's been a great run for 20+ years 15:34:49 ... i'm not disappearing 15:35:10 joel: debt of gratitude for Addison 15:35:31 ... i have a lot to learn, and will rely on others to help 15:35:42 ... i can't go to TPAC because of a classh 15:36:04 ... if you have any suggestions for meting improvements, i'm open to everything 15:36:34 ... i'm very interested in doing more education work in the future 15:37:01 ... making our existing bank of resources available to a larger audience is something i'd like to work on 15:37:14 xfq: congratulations, and thanks to Addison 15:37:43 zakim, takeup agendum 6 15:37:43 I don't understand 'takeup agendum 6', jsahleen 15:37:54 zakim take up item 6 15:38:09 zakim, takeup item 6 15:38:09 I don't understand 'takeup item 6', jsahleen 15:38:23 zakim, take up item 6 15:38:23 agendum 6 -- TPAC Planning -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:38:55 addison: is everyone going to be at TPAC ? 15:39:05 r12a: i'll be there 15:39:11 xfq: me too 15:39:54 addison: i have a few potential meetings with other groups 15:40:04 ... dial in will be challenging 15:40:17 ... because of time zones 15:40:53 xfq: zoom links will be announced at some point 15:41:03 joel: does it start on the monday? 15:41:08 addison: yes 15:41:33 addison: any goals for this year? 15:41:44 xfq: Eemeli has 3 breakout sessions 15:41:53 addison: any actions to work on? 15:42:13 xfq: progress on our documents, like glossary, string-search, etc. 15:42:30 addison: glossary is important to figure out, becuase affects other people 15:42:43 ... need to make progress on infrastructure and things 15:42:58 xfq: we have a lot of tracker backlong 15:43:26 joel: will sustainability folks be there - might be good to introduce ourselves 15:43:36 xfq: they have meetings on thursday 15:43:39 https://www.w3.org/2025/11/TPAC/schedule.html 15:43:46 https://www.w3.org/2025/11/TPAC/schedule.html#thursday 15:43:49 addison: it's a good hallway conversation 15:44:37 zakim, draft log 15:44:37 I don't understand 'draft log', r12a 15:44:44 zakim, draft minutes 15:44:44 I don't understand 'draft minutes', r12a 15:45:00 rrsagent, draft log 15:45:00 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft log', r12a. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:45:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:45:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html r12a 15:45:30 agenda? 15:50:28 action: xfq: preparations for TPAC meetings 15:50:35 Created -> action #192 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/192 15:51:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:51:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:51:40 https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html#b176 15:52:36 zakim, take up item 8 15:52:36 agendum 8 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:53:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html addison 15:53:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:53:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-i18n-minutes.html xfq 16:05:54 zakim, who is here? 16:05:54 Present: Addison, Atsushi, Richard, Joel, Fuqiao, Bert 16:05:55 On IRC I see bigbluehat, atsushi, addison, RRSAgent, Zakim, r12a, florian, gb, koji, Bert, agendabot, xfq, ChrisL, astearns, alastairc, jyasskin, Rachael, cwilso, eemeli, csarven 16:05:57 zakim, bye 16:05:57 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Atsushi, Richard, Joel, Fuqiao, Bert 16:05:57 Zakim has left #i18n