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15:00:23 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:31 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth
15:00:40 <dbooth> Meeting: FHIR RDF
15:02:11 <dbooth> Topic: R6 prep
15:02:18 <dbooth> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/176#issuecomment-3310548082
15:02:37 <dbooth> dbooth: Kindling PRs have not been merged yet.  Others have.
15:02:44 <dbooth> tim: I'll message Grahame.
15:06:23 <dbooth> dbooth: treeRoot change from class to individual does not change the data on the wire
15:08:30 <dbooth> ... I'll plan to improve the wording later: ""For purposes of validating FHIR RDF data, the logical meaning of the OWL ontology is normative.  However, ..."
15:09:08 <dbooth> tim: Need to clarify that what appears in the instance data is what cannot change without being a breaking change.
15:11:14 <dbooth> dbooth: Anything else urgent fo rR6 deadline?
15:13:08 <dbooth> jim: I have not had time for #170 semantics  of hash IDs
15:16:02 <dbooth> Topic: Sorting the ontology
15:16:03 <dbooth> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/207
15:16:44 <dbooth> tim: Pretty straight forward.  I did it using an open source lib.  Not sure if the would allow it.
15:17:37 <dbooth> ... Apache jena uses random order.
15:17:45 <dbooth> https://build.fhir.org/fhir.ttl
15:17:57 <dbooth> tim: This one sorts: https://github.com/atextor/turtle-formatter
15:21:02 <dbooth> dbooth: Would it be kinder to wait until after the R6 deadline to do this one?
15:22:40 <dbooth> ACTION: dbooth to add this to our R6 checklist
15:23:27 <dbooth> ACTION: dbooth to reference the PR from the jira ticket
15:25:30 <dbooth> Topic: Example files with empty blank nodes #206
15:25:35 <dbooth> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/206
15:25:40 <dbooth> jim: I'll look at it
15:36:57 <dbooth> Topic: THO LOINC.html page shows wrong IRI stem #196
15:37:02 <dbooth> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/196
15:37:09 <dbooth> gaurav: I'll work on it.
15:40:00 <dbooth> Topic: Update FHIR RDF Playground to R6
15:40:01 <dbooth> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/195
15:40:20 <dbooth> dbooth: I think it's valuable for simple testing
15:40:43 <dbooth> tim: Agreed, but I'm focused on real application
15:43:06 <dbooth> ... Higher priority would be validation tool that can be used in the real world.
15:46:52 <dbooth> Topic: Turtle examples of Bundle.entry.resource use a list but should not #194
15:46:57 <dbooth> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/194
15:47:08 <dbooth> jim: I'll look at it
15:50:45 <dbooth> Topic: ValueSet bindings for ontology and validation #167
15:50:47 <dbooth> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/167
15:51:35 <dbooth> tim: Would allow you to run a reasoner and get inconsistencies if the wrong code is used, i.e., closed world validation w OWL.  But doesn't work w bindings to CodeableConcepts
15:51:47 <dbooth> (EricP) joined
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15:52:57 <dbooth> tim: We can even generate an IRI for it, that would bring you to the valueset (almost).
15:55:17 <dbooth> ericp: We've been adding type arcs to codings.  Should we to it by the literal code value or the IRI that we gen for the code?
15:55:35 <dbooth> tim: We would not get the closed-world validation using the IRI.
15:56:56 <dbooth> tim: you would have to manual expand sets of codes in advance
15:57:44 <dbooth> ... And to use shex, if you want to expand the codes, you would have to dynamically expand the codes in shex too.
15:58:28 <dbooth> ... If you have SNOMED in OWL, you could use OWL to do the expansion.
15:58:45 <dbooth> ... Could enable a terminology service that would be OWL/shex native
15:59:18 <dbooth> ... So if we set up OWL and shex this way, someone could set up a terminology service and use OWL and shex natively.
16:00:48 <dbooth> ericp: Anybody have a pet OWL implementation that would be easy to extend with user-defined functions, to expand a valueset dynamically?
16:01:04 <dbooth> tim: I did that using apache jena, and also w OWL API.
16:01:48 <dbooth> ... Also was able to, in kindling, created the class axioms of the valuesets
16:04:00 <dbooth> dbooth: Lifecycle issue: lifecycle of terminologies is independent of FHIR version lifecycle.
16:04:20 <dbooth> tim: If the ont just points to the valueset IRI.
16:05:22 <dbooth> ... The resources already have valueset bindings.
16:05:54 <dbooth> ... Profiles have rules that can extend valuesets
16:06:15 <dbooth> s/extend/constrain/
16:06:52 <dbooth> ken: But you can have bindings to multiple terminologies
16:07:04 <dbooth> tim: That's handled by what a valueset is
16:08:06 <dbooth> ... I would also represent a CodeSystem as a class of codes
16:09:19 <dbooth> ... Then a valueset would be a union of subsets of the CodeSystems
16:11:43 <dbooth> ken: can this prove that some valuesets are disjoint?  e.g., status is used by multiple things.
16:11:53 <dbooth> s/things/resources/
16:12:22 <dbooth> tim: Codes are identified by a combination of code and system, so they're disambiguated that way.
16:13:55 <dbooth> ken: Sometimes they use the same CodeSystem for "status", across different resources, like Observation status vs some other status.
16:15:41 <dbooth> dbooth: Does this depend on having IRI stems registered for the CodeSystem?
16:15:43 <dbooth> tim: Yes
16:15:57 <dbooth> Topic: ShEx generator
16:16:06 <dbooth> ericp: It's ready for PR now.
16:29:55 <dbooth> dbooth: Let's stay on the zoom to figure out how to do the PR
16:29:59 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
16:30:52 <dbooth> Present: Ken Lord, Gaurav Vaidya, Detlef Grittner, EricP, David Booth, Tim Prudhomme, Jim Balhoff
16:31:07 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:31:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/30-hcls-minutes.html dbooth