12:57:47 RRSAgent has joined #matf 12:57:52 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/29-matf-irc 12:57:52 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:57:53 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ 12:57:54 Zakim, this is MATF 29 October 2025 12:57:54 got it, JJ 12:58:03 Meeting: MATF 29 October 2025 12:58:07 chair+ 12:58:12 agenda+ 2.4.2 Page Titled 12:58:18 agenda+ 2.5.1 Pointer Gestures 12:58:22 agenda+ 2.5.2 Pointer Cancellation 12:58:27 agenda+ 2.5.3 Label in Name 12:58:31 agenda+ 3.1.2 Language of Parts 12:58:35 agenda+ Change of Context definition 12:58:39 agenda+ User Agent definition 12:59:16 present+ 12:59:23 present+ 13:02:19 Tanya has joined #matf 13:02:26 present+ 13:03:14 quintinb has joined #MATF 13:03:30 present+ 13:04:25 scribe: quintinb 13:04:45 regrets+ TimGravemaker 13:04:54 I have many regrets, but this meeting is not one of them, lol 13:04:55 move to next agendum 13:04:56 agendum 1 -- 2.4.2 Page Titled -- taken up [from JJ] 13:05:11 Rob-w has joined #matf 13:05:11 https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/9#issuecomment-3461236170 13:07:46 Jamie has joined #matf 13:08:00 present+ 13:08:05 Proposal: This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.4.2 replacing “web pages” with “pages”. 13:08:05 With this substitution, it would read: 13:08:05 2.4.2 Page Titled: Pages have titles that describe topic or purpose. 13:08:05 Note: 13:08:06 Limited screen space or technical limitations may make it impractical or impossible to display a visible page title on every page or to provide a programmatic title. Pages should therefore include whatever form of title or cue is feasible to support user orientation. This may be a visible page title, a programmatic title exposed to assistive 13:08:06 technologies, or, where neither is technically possible, a visual cue that serves a similar purpose by helping users identify their current location within the application or set of pages. 13:08:37 q+ would the title (if present) need to be marked as a heading? 13:08:49 q+ to would the title (if present) need to be marked as a heading? 13:08:58 q+ 13:09:13 ack Tanya 13:11:26 Tanya Reading through previous comments, there are some sub tasks. I don't have a technical background to take components into account. I think in our draft we should be quite general. I was struggling with mapping page in this context because in a mobile app the flows are different from wrap pages, where it is uncommon to put a title on every 13:11:26 screen in a flow. What would be the page name of every part of a flow, and can headings fulfill this brief. It's important to acknowledge we can't have a full title on each part of a flow 13:11:30 ack quintinb 13:11:30 quintinb, you wanted to would the title (if present) need to be marked as a heading? 13:11:50 +1 13:12:43 I am not looking forward to the day mobile introduces heading levels... 13:12:44 +1 to adding page title content to heading SC 13:13:05 Q+ 13:13:20 ack Rob-w 13:13:55 Rob-w iOS does support headings, but for user generated content not as a11y features, but they can be used for that 13:14:24 quintinb Swift UI already has heading levels 13:15:07 +1 to comment "there is some text that has a heading role" 13:15:09 Rob-w I don't think a note is required to mark as a heading, it can be determined by something else. I don't see what adding a title to a nav bar would do for accessibility of an app 13:15:29 q+ 13:15:50 q+ 13:15:55 ack Joe_Humbert 13:17:25 Joe_Humbert I think having some visual piece that serves as the title whether it's a heading or not is helpful. It's been there mostly in android + ios for a long time. Maybe Apple has reasons for it. While there isn't a title attributes for every component, alerts are an example, but while you can show an alert without a title, it's less helpful. 13:17:34 I agree there must be a visual title. I'm just questioning if we need to say this should be in the nav bar. 13:17:35 ack Tanya 13:18:41 Android panes (alerts) a have title attribute e.g. https://developer.android.com/reference/androidx/core/view/accessibility/AccessibilityNodeInfoCompat#getPaneTitle() probably to differentiate the layer from the application window 13:18:42 Rob-w understood. I think we should recommend it be in a consistent place if not specifically saying it should be in the nav bar or equivalent 13:19:09 q+ 13:19:26 Tanya I think it's important to look at the purpose of the criteria. It's about making the structure clearer to users - users need to find content and reorient themselves - for example for screen reader users need to know which page they're on. Sometimes when digging into an app, in rare cases, you don't know where you are, that is where this SC 13:19:26 applies 13:20:40 ack Jamie 13:22:03 can you give examples of where it doesn't make sense Jamie? 13:22:06 Jamie I was thinking whether we should look into the words of the SC itself. Can we make it less complex, in past jobs this specific criteria hasn't been needed. Customers have struggled to meet this. We might need to answer if this a must or a should have criteria 13:22:07 ' 13:22:34 Full screen video? 13:23:58 Where there is no clear nav region, or in the context of a hybrid where you might have .... modals as well... 13:27:03 ACTION: Collect examples of titles used in apps e.g. alerts, navigation bar, etc. 13:27:18 ACTION: Collect examples of screens where it's not feasible to add a title 13:28:22 q? 13:28:30 move to next agendum 13:28:30 agendum 2 -- 2.5.1 Pointer Gestures -- taken up [from JJ] 13:28:37 https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/39#issuecomment-3461352821 13:28:44 *points at gestures 13:28:59 https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/223/files 13:29:56 correction: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/37#issuecomment-3461357779 + https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/266/files 13:32:23 ACTION: Approve https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/266 if you agree with proposed text for 2.5.1 13:32:50 move to next agendum 13:32:50 agendum 3 -- 2.5.2 Pointer Cancellation -- taken up [from JJ] 13:33:01 https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/38#issuecomment-3461354976 13:33:09 https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/267/files 13:33:21 https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/267/commits/7549f847dbcf1b8642ecf088858d7fc328e3a995 13:34:04 Q+ 13:35:09 q+ 13:35:59 ack Joe_Humbert 13:37:02 Joe_Humbert to review: Go to view files and then "submit review" 13:37:33 ack shoobe01 13:37:37 ack shoobe 13:38:49 shoobe01 what if the app has a feature instead of is that kind of app - i.e. there is a drawing component as opposed to a drawing app 13:39:56 ACTION: For 2.5.2 replace "apps/applications" with "functionality" to apply to broader type of applications 13:39:59 q? 13:40:07 Jamie2 has joined #matf 13:40:40 Joe_Humbert This is why I am concerned about approving, because I have approval access and it get's merged 13:41:06 I approve in principle, but can't hit approve on the machine I'm currently using. 13:41:54 Jami has joined #matf 13:41:55 move to next agendum 13:41:55 agendum 4 -- 2.5.3 Label in Name -- taken up [from JJ] 13:42:05 https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/39#issuecomment-3461352821 13:42:11 https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/223/files 13:42:16 Jamie has joined #matf 13:42:19 https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/223/commits/00b12bb4d55487ceb61f42981f560e65576dd08b 13:42:28 present+ 13:43:56 q+ to best practice? 13:44:34 q- 13:45:40 q+ 13:46:01 Problematic for grouped complex components - thatr's why the label is abest practice 13:46:20 ack Joe_Humbert 13:47:02 Joe_Humbert my concern with the second note is that developers may have a cop-out in terms of the rest of the visual text 13:47:20 quintinb shakes fist at not exposing all text to AT 13:48:45 ACTION: Change "Other visible text components *may*" to "must" in 2.5.3 13:48:52 Joe_Humbert can we make it "must" to ensure that visual text does need to be exposed 13:49:38 ACTION: Check if any SC will be failed if all visible text is not included in the label - e.g. only primary text 13:51:26 move to next agendum 13:51:26 agendum 5 -- 3.1.2 Language of Parts -- taken up [from JJ] 13:51:37 https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/173#issuecomment-3440137616 13:55:08 Q+ 13:55:32 ack shoobe 13:56:24 shoobe01 you can set language? yes for the entire app. 13:58:40 ACTION: Process feedback for 3.1.2 and create Pull Request with Markdown file containing the proposed text 13:59:26 bye! 13:59:28 Thanks JJ. 14:00:03 Zakim, list participants 14:00:03 As of this point the attendees have been Joe_Humbert, shoobe, Tanya, quintinb, Jamie 14:01:15 rrsagent, make minutes 14:01:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/29-matf-minutes.html JJ 14:26:32 Jamie has joined #matf 14:26:32 Jami has joined #matf 14:26:32 Tanya has joined #matf 14:26:32 shoobe01 has joined #matf 14:26:32 github-bot has joined #matf 14:27:38 Jamie has joined #matf 14:27:38 Jami has joined #matf 14:27:38 Tanya has joined #matf 14:27:38 shoobe01 has joined #matf 14:27:38 github-bot has joined #matf 14:29:11 Jamie has joined #matf 14:29:11 Jami has joined #matf 14:29:11 Tanya has joined #matf 14:29:11 shoobe01 has joined #matf 14:29:11 github-bot has joined #matf 14:30:32 Jamie has joined #matf 14:30:32 Jami has joined #matf 14:30:32 Tanya has joined #matf 14:30:32 shoobe01 has joined #matf 14:30:32 github-bot has joined #matf 14:32:05 Jamie has joined #matf 14:32:05 Jami has joined #matf 14:32:05 Tanya has joined #matf 14:32:05 shoobe01 has joined #matf 14:32:05 github-bot has joined #matf