15:00:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
15:00:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/22-pointerevents-irc
15:00:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:00:37 <smaug> Just a sec, I need more coffee
15:01:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/66591f6b-6694-4f90-b23d-bf8f1b9dda8a/20251022T110000/
15:01:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:01:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
15:01:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
15:01:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
15:01:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ plh
15:01:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:01:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:02:00 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
15:02:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:03:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Web Platform Tests https://wpt.live/pointerevents/ / https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=experimental&label=master&aligned
15:06:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: on this topic, i spoke to PLH checking what we need to do to go to REC with Level 3, and he reminded me kindly that ideally we need two passing implementations for each feature. question: if we have some WPTs that fail because the test harness doesn't support things, is that a problem?
15:07:01 <mustaq> I found this to be a test problem (vs impl): pointerevent_after_target_removed_from_slot.html?mouse
15:07:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: ideally have passing result, but it can also be part of the "story" - if tests fail because of limitations of the test platform, and we feel that things are as good as they can be in terms of "it's implemented/correct, just that the test is flawed/we can't test for it", then we need to document THAT
15:08:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: so you believe all features are implemented, regardless of tests?
15:08:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: i think the new touch-action values are chromium only
15:09:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: my recommendation then would be to drop those if we don't have two implementations. dropping would allow us to ship level 3. they're not marked as at risk, so may need to issue another CR
15:10:09 <mustaq> New touch-action values are unidirectional ones (left, right vs x)
15:10:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: you would need to drop those from the PE3 draft (in the branch)
15:11:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to remove the chromium-only touch-actions from the level 3 branch for a new snapshot
15:14:30 <mustaq> https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents/pointerevent_touch-action-pan-x-css_touch.html?label=experimental&label=master&aligned
15:14:37 <mustaq> https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents/pointerevent_touch-action-pan-left-css_touch.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned
15:14:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: firefox fails pan-x the same way as pan-left, so this might be a harness problem? (as pan-x at least should pass)
15:15:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: if there are ones that fail because of harness, like the touch ones, can we do a manual test instead?
15:18:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: there are also failures from pointerlock ... (which might be weirdly intertwined with pointer events?) they seem to all be failing at the moment
15:18:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: i think those were passing before in chromium...but they're covered by pointerlock
15:19:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: yeah just wasn't sure if there was overlap with pointerevents
15:19:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: it's not even part of the pointerevents spec
15:19:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: some of them are indirectly dependent on pointerevents ...
15:21:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: the tests might be failing because of something that changed in pointerevents, but not directly our concern. needs to be looked at by pointerlock folks
15:22:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: suggest at TPAC we try to make a big list of tests that are problematic/may need to be changed to manual tests
15:23:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: what to do with UI events
15:26:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: [explains the situation: UI Events is stale, has vague definitions, but we now come across things that we'd want to specify more precisely ... but how?]
15:26:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: it does indeed look like nobody is actively working on UI events. but in first instance, to avoid monkeypatching, suggest sending a PR to UI events ...
15:26:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we tried at last TPAC to get clarity, but no joy since
15:27:12 <mustaq> See Day3 in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EtEFfQ3sJ6lECF3ojmbLKIH7iKN4RdGrapVosQB-wqI/edit?usp=sharing
15:27:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: or we just remove things from UI events and spec them ourselves...
15:27:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: or that yes ... send a PR that removes things from UI events and migrates definitions to PE
15:27:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: it's not that there was opposition, just ... nobody to do it
15:28:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: my suggestion: send PR to UI events pointing to PE instead of vague definiton. would guess it impacts all of section 5.3 in UI events
15:29:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: we should probably also move mouse events. so UI events becomes keyboard events and composition events
15:29:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: also wheel events
15:29:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: wheel events is probably another pointer event that we want to capture perhaps
15:30:07 <plh> https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#external-pointerevent-algorithms
15:31:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: that note was probably added just before last TPAC
15:31:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: need to see if any more things need to be moved, like mousedown/mouseup/etc. we ready to do the work on it yet?
15:31:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: not yet
15:33:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: if we are going to DO the work, then we need to extend the charter to mention mouse, wheel, etc
15:34:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: UI event spec is also in a limbo state where it started having algorithms/pseudo-algos, but not quite yet
15:34:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: of course, this would be for Level 4, not 3...
15:34:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: no spec has algorithms for certain things YET, so we need to come up with them first before sending a PR
15:39:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to reword/expand charter to include mouse events/pointer events algo (potentially wheel events?)
15:55:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: pledging that i will have the PR for the charter by next monday. We'll reconvene in 2 weeks' time before TPAC, and then at TPAC we have the meeting on Friday. thank you all
15:55:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:55:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:55:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/22-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:56:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:56:12 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/10/22-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:56:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to remove the chromium-only touch-actions from the level 3 branch for a new snapshot [1]
15:56:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/10/22-pointerevents-irc#T15-11-29
15:56:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to reword/expand charter to include mouse events/pointer events algo (potentially wheel events?) [2]
15:56:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/10/22-pointerevents-irc#T15-39-06