13:50:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:50:40 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/16-i18n-irc
13:50:42 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2958fbd0-8609-4d69-a040-ab7bd11bc6fb/20251016T150000/
13:50:42 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:50:42 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:50:42 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:50:44 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:50:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Review RADAR Review
13:50:48 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
13:50:51 <agendabot> agenda+ Support for multi-language render
13:50:53 <agendabot> agenda+ Language tags for non-linguistic content
13:50:56 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:51:05 <addison> addison has joined #i18n
13:51:12 <addison> agenda?
13:51:22 <addison> agenda+ IRI and isolates
13:51:48 <addison> agenda+ Another way to mark normativity in the glossary
13:52:02 <addison> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:52:07 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:52:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/16-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:55:35 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
13:56:50 <addison> present+ Addison
14:01:17 <addison> present+ Joel, Fuqiao
14:02:14 <addison> present+ Eemeli, Richard
14:02:19 <addison> present+ Bert
14:02:36 <atsushi> atsushi has joined #i18n
14:03:31 <addison> present+ Atsushi
14:03:38 <jsahleen> jsahleen has joined #i18n
14:04:39 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:04:39 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:42 <addison> agenda?
14:05:11 <bigbluehat> bigbluehat has joined #i18n
14:05:41 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:05:41 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:50 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues
14:05:57 <addison> #188
14:05:57 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/188 -> Action 188  convert number formatting article to html and publish to wide review (on xfq) due 2025-10-16
14:06:10 <atsushi> xfq: did it today, close
14:06:10 <addison> close #188
14:06:12 <gb> Closed -> issue #188 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/188
14:06:13 <addison> #187
14:06:14 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/187 -> Action 187  ping GOOG again for participation (on aphillips) due 2025-10-16
14:06:28 <atsushi> addison: ping but not heard back yet
14:06:41 <atsushi> ... preparing other email to other companies
14:06:43 <addison> #185
14:06:43 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/185 -> Action 185  follow up with PLH on automating TC39 repos (on aphillips) due 2025-10-02
14:06:57 <addison> #135
14:06:58 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135 -> Action 135  follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17
14:07:01 <addison> #33
14:07:01 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)
14:07:10 <addison> #7
14:07:11 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023
14:07:18 <addison> #4
14:07:18 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023
14:07:27 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:07:27 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:07:32 <r12a> present+
14:07:57 <atsushi> eemeli: submitted two breakout sessions
14:09:04 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:09:04 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:09:11 <addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1
14:10:04 <atsushi> addison: read ECMA one
14:12:05 <atsushi> addison: we should have permission now for repository
14:12:25 <addison> action: addison: follow up with shane carr about ecma repo automation
14:12:33 <gb> Created -> action #189 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/189
14:12:42 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:12:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:12:49 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending
14:13:04 <addison> i18n-activity#2038
14:13:05 <atsushi> addison: we have two new incoming for discussion
14:13:05 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2038 -> Issue 2038 Support for Multi-language Render Templates (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker]
14:13:24 <atsushi> addison: from VC
14:13:32 <addison> i18n-activity#2039
14:13:33 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2039 -> Issue 2039 Discuss adding `i18n.setAcceptLanguages` and `i18n.appendAcceptLanguage` (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:webextensions]
14:13:59 <atsushi> ... talking about API for managing accept language header
14:15:24 <atsushi> addison: Web extension one is early stage of incubation and discussion
14:15:41 <addison> action: addison: add a comment to i18n issue 2039's parent to indicate interest and call for early review/engagement
14:15:42 <gb> Created -> action #190 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/190
14:15:48 <addison> agenda?
14:16:13 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:16:13 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Support for multi-language render -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:16:44 <addison> i18n-activity#2038
14:16:45 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2038 -> Issue 2038 Support for Multi-language Render Templates (by w3cbot) [tracker] [t:loc_localization] [s:vc-render-method]
14:16:56 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/vc-render-method/issues/26
14:16:57 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/vc-render-method/issues/26 -> Issue 26 Support for Multi-language Render Templates (by vishwa-vyom) [class 4] [i18n-tracker]
14:17:34 <atsushi> addison: VC allow you to specify way to render credential, providing localization mechanizm, described
14:18:07 <atsushi> ... two part for implementation, credential receiver what user locale matches with template and nagotiate to display
14:19:09 <atsushi> ... credential author, provide templates with language tag
14:19:52 <atsushi> ... added quick comment, as high level one
14:20:43 <atsushi> xfq: still draft in FPWD phase
14:20:59 <xfq> s/FPWD phase/pre-FPWD phase
14:21:38 <atsushi> eemeli: could be a topic for breakout session of localization
14:21:40 <addison> agenda?
14:21:52 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
14:21:53 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Language tags for non-linguistic content -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:22:12 <addison> dapt#2032
14:22:12 <gb> Issue 2032 not found
14:22:16 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/322
14:22:16 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/322 -> MERGED Pull Request 322 Use `und` in place of an empty `daptm:langSrc` (by nigelmegitt)
14:22:41 <atsushi> xfq: already merged PR
14:22:44 <xfq> https://w3c.github.io/dapt/#text-language-source
14:22:53 <atsushi> ... and this section in spec
14:23:08 <atsushi> ... basically changed default value into und
14:23:17 <atsushi> ... for undetermined one
14:23:30 <atsushi> ... also referenced BCP 47 for valid tag
14:24:06 <addison> q+
14:24:11 <addison> ack next
14:24:33 <atsushi> addison: forgot to mention about well-formed
14:24:38 <atsushi> xfq: added in another one
14:25:08 <atsushi> addison: if XML lang or lang value is empty, had some meaning
14:25:27 <atsushi> ... und will inherit down into, but blank is not
14:26:08 <atsushi> ... und has its own meaning in cldr or else
14:26:15 <xfq> ... und starts to have a meaning in the CLDR land of root
14:26:20 <atsushi> joel: trigger internal API chain
14:26:36 <xfq> s/internal/Intl/
14:27:04 <xfq> eemeli: und means not supported, falling back to the navigator default
14:27:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/16-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:27:50 <JcK> present+ JcK
14:28:12 <xfq> scribe+ atsushi
14:28:50 <addison> agenda?
14:29:13 <atsushi> addison: blank could be if content is explicitly mentioned as non linguistinc content
14:31:09 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:31:09 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- IRI and isolates -- taken up [from addison]
14:31:35 <addison> As this is something I came across this week but haven't figured out
14:31:35 <addison> if it needs an embargo of some sort, I'd prefer not having it
14:31:35 <addison> mentioned in public yet, but it probably merits some discussion:
14:31:35 <addison> When Unicode added LRI/RLI/FSI/PDI and ALM back in 2013, the IRI spec
14:31:36 <addison> (RFC 3987) was not updated, and it still today contains this
14:31:36 <addison> enumerated list [1]:
14:31:36 <addison> > IRIs MUST NOT contain bidirectional formatting characters
14:31:37 <addison> > (LRM, RLM, LRE, RLE, LRO, RLO, and PDF).
14:31:37 <addison> Because that leaves out the isolation marks and the Arabic letter
14:31:37 <addison> mark, there are _many_ URL detectors and linkifiers which, when
14:31:38 <addison> encountering text like:
14:31:38 <addison> https://mozilla.קום/⁦org/foo⁩؜
14:31:38 <addison> will make it work as a link that appears to point at mozilla.org,
14:31:39 <addison> while having the link itself actually lead to mozilla.קום, a
14:31:39 <addison> completely different domain. The sequence of characters above is:
14:31:39 <addison>     https://mozilla.קום/\u2066org/foo\u2069\u061c
14:31:41 <addison> i.e. the Hebrew TLD starts an RTL span which includes an isolated LTR
14:31:41 <addison> span that has the invisible ALM ensuring that the visually
14:31:41 <addison> left-to-right rendering is "https://mozilla.", ALM, "org/foo", "קום".
14:31:41 <addison> I've not filed an errata for the RFC yet, but this might merit a CVE
14:31:41 <addison> as well. I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with "URLs are
14:31:41 <addison> broken", because it's not something I expected to discover.
14:31:42 <addison> Of email clients, Gmail should not be vulnerable to this, but Outlook
14:31:42 <addison> and Thunderbird are, when processing text-only emails. Facebook and
14:31:42 <addison> Mastodon are also vulnerable; those sorts of apps are probably the
14:31:43 <addison> worst affected, given that they normally don't allow editing the link
14:31:43 <addison> text.
14:31:43 <addison> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3987#section-4.1
14:31:52 <atsushi> eemeli: got bug report explicitly for isolation
14:32:27 <atsushi> ... finally, iri list characters
14:32:57 <atsushi> ... in new one iri characters defined should not be appear
14:33:50 <atsushi> ... in top level domain, if bidi exists, string presented to user to be not actually reading
14:33:54 <addison> q+
14:35:05 <atsushi> ... next step could be making people be aware of this issue
14:35:28 <addison> ack next
14:36:11 <atsushi> addison: bidi was known as issue in uri
14:36:21 <atsushi> ... people paid attention to bidi controls
14:38:04 <atsushi> JcK: old objections around, long list of problems around bidi,
14:38:09 <jsahleen> fascinating
14:40:40 <xfq> https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-rendering-i18n
14:43:24 <atsushi> [long history surveys...]
14:44:35 <xfq> https://w3c.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#resid_misc
14:45:41 <jsahleen> CVE?
14:47:18 <Bert> Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures
14:48:26 <jsahleen> silence = ignorance
14:49:33 <addison> agenda?
14:52:56 <atsushi> eemeli: will draft text for errata and asend to JcK and addison
14:54:53 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
14:54:53 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- Another way to mark normativity in the glossary -- taken up [from addison]
14:55:02 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/85
14:55:03 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/85 -> Pull Request 85 Another way to mark normativity (by xfq)
14:55:13 <addison> https://deploy-preview-85--i18n-glossary.netlify.app/
14:55:17 <atsushi> addison: PR as above
14:55:52 <atsushi> xfq: [introduce background of marking normativity work]
14:57:27 <atsushi> ... previous consensus was to classify terms into categories, and transfer ones into two documents
14:57:45 <atsushi> ... in preview link, you could see some terms has blue box as normative
14:59:14 <atsushi> addison: splitting would not be better, and marking as this could be good
15:01:34 <atsushi> bert: comment on readability, blue box could be adjusted
15:01:44 <atsushi> ... some label could be enough
15:02:45 <atsushi> addison: basically of set of attributes on display
15:07:46 <atsushi> xfq: we could have PR against any branch, other than main
15:08:42 <atsushi> xfq: this PR is already marking normative terms, we could start discussion based on this draft
15:09:06 <atsushi> ... start from normative part, and decide on other parts
15:10:07 <addison> agenda?
15:10:08 <atsushi> xfq: will prepare next step and bring back to WG
15:10:19 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
15:10:19 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:11:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/16-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:01:12 <addison> zakim, who is here?
16:01:12 <Zakim> Present: Addison, Joel, Fuqiao, Eemeli, Richard, Bert, Atsushi, r12a, JcK
16:01:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see bigbluehat, addison, RRSAgent, Zakim, r12a, koji, florian, Bert, gb, agendabot, xfq, ChrisL, astearns, alastairc, jyasskin, Rachael, cwilso, eemeli, csarven
16:01:17 <addison> zakim, bye
16:01:17 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Joel, Fuqiao, Eemeli, Richard, Bert, Atsushi, r12a, JcK
16:01:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n