IRC log of tt on 2025-10-09

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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:58:41 [nigel]
scribe: nigel
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Present: Nigel
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Chair: Nigel, Gary
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-tt-minutes.html nigel
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Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/317
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Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-tt-minutes.html
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Present+ Astushi, Andreas, Pierre, Chris_Needham, Harold
15:02:48 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
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s/Astushi/Atsushi
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Nigel: (Recaps the agenda) Anything else?
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15:08:58 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC 1.3
15:10:04 [nigel]
Nigel: I think we need to cover the ja character set changes and issue 524
15:10:31 [nigel]
Subtopic: Improve the ja character set per ARIB feedback w3c/imsc#614
15:10:38 [nigel]
github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/614
15:10:42 [nigel]
Pierre: [shares screen]
15:11:17 [nigel]
.. Liaison from ARIB raises the question at hand.
15:11:28 [nigel]
.. ARIB kindly suggested character set changes for ja, which is great.
15:11:46 [nigel]
.. There's a note about Ideographic Variation Selector.
15:11:53 [nigel]
.. However that is not a defined term.
15:12:01 [nigel]
.. Atsushi and I have been discussing how to interpret it.
15:12:18 [nigel]
.. We need to figure out what that means, so we don't write something different from
15:12:22 [nigel]
.. what they intend.
15:12:58 [nigel]
.. From Atsushi's last comment I think "ideographic variation sequence"?
15:14:26 [nigel]
Atsushi: CJK compatibility ideographs are there for compatibility.
15:14:38 [nigel]
.. There can be mismapping between character set and what Unicode says.
15:14:59 [nigel]
.. For backward compatibility between local character set and unicode some characters
15:15:14 [nigel]
.. have both mappings within [scribe missed].
15:15:25 [nigel]
.. I believe that is not related to variation sequence or anything else.
15:15:41 [nigel]
.. If someone wants to say about the variation selector usually we say
15:15:54 [nigel]
.. "ideographic variation selector" or "ideographic variation sequence"
15:16:31 [nigel]
.. so they should mean the same as each other. They are terms used interchangeably.
15:17:08 [nigel]
.. I believe what the point means is that the ideographic variation sequences shall be used.
15:17:27 [nigel]
Pierre: That's not part of main Unicode, it's part of UCS-37. Does ARIB reference UCS-37?
15:17:59 [nigel]
Atsushi: Variation selector itself is in ISO10646
15:18:15 [nigel]
Pierre: That's a much broader thing though, includes emoji selectors which I think we don't want.
15:18:38 [nigel]
Atsushi: shows [Ideographic variation sequence] in Unicode 17.0.0
15:18:46 [nigel]
Pierre: You have to know how to represent it.
15:19:05 [nigel]
Atsushi: Representation is described in a separate database, not in ISO10646.
15:19:21 [nigel]
Pierre: Before saying you must or should support this I want to know absolutely certainly that
15:19:29 [nigel]
.. is what ARIB has in mind. Can we get a sample?
15:19:39 [nigel]
.. I don't want to suggest a mandatory thing that's wrong or won't be used.
15:20:01 [nigel]
Atsushi: I wonder if I can ask a "side" way from colleagues in NHK.
15:20:17 [nigel]
Pierre: Please ask informally! I'm interested as an Editor in knowing which part of Unicode
15:20:23 [nigel]
.. this "SHALL" exactly means.
15:20:38 [nigel]
.. Just to clarify the terminology that doesn't exactly match the spec.
15:20:56 [nigel]
Atsushi: Is it okay to reply to the liaison email by myself?
15:21:11 [nigel]
Nigel: Yes I think that would be good. I'd suggest if you can write informally in response
15:21:27 [nigel]
.. that we noticed this small difference in language and want to make sure that we understand
15:21:43 [nigel]
.. correctly and ask for guidance or even sample data then that would help clear this up for us.
15:22:03 [nigel]
.. I don't want to go around a whole formal liaison/response loop which will take a long time.
15:23:07 [nigel]
Pierre: [drafts the essential request in the GitHub issue]
15:23:52 [nigel]
SUMMARY: @himorin to ask informally for clarification as per the above discussion.
15:25:56 [nigel]
Subtopic: APA WG comment: semantic layers w3c/imsc#524
15:26:02 [nigel]
github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/524
15:26:45 [nigel]
Nigel: We discussed this back in February and wanted more from APA
15:26:58 [nigel]
Atushi: I believe APA has closed on the IMSC 1.3 review
15:27:04 [nigel]
s/Atushi/Atsushi
15:28:16 [nigel]
.. Wasn't there an accessibility review?
15:28:31 [nigel]
Nigel: I don't think I've seen one, or they've closed it but there's an ongoing discussion.
15:28:44 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/252 a11y tracking issue for IMSC
15:29:08 [nigel]
Atsushi: We need traction from APA on these issues, I'm not sure if there is discussion or not.
15:30:45 [nigel]
.. Maybe I need to make it clear to APA that we're requesting transition to CRS.
15:31:18 [nigel]
Nigel: Would you like to check this offline and get back to us?
15:31:29 [nigel]
Atsushi: Sorry, let me think about it a bit more.
15:32:00 [nigel]
.. We could ask for the first CRS but I don't believe we can close everything as review completed.
15:32:10 [nigel]
Nigel: That's what we need to do, get to a point where we can publish CRS.
15:32:23 [nigel]
Pierre: What's the hold up?
15:32:58 [atsushi]
https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/116#issuecomment-3298869859
15:33:00 [nigel]
Atsushi: We need to request a review for CRS but we asked for an early WD review.
15:33:14 [atsushi]
> As we see a FPWD Status, we have no objection, but would like to return to the question of what might be said regarding super/subscript before this profile is finalized.
15:33:15 [nigel]
Pierre: We have a review.
15:33:57 [nigel]
Pierre: They closed their horizontal review 3 weeks ago and their only comment is editorial.
15:34:30 [nigel]
Atsushi: There is a different criteria for each stage. Usually we discuss comments on specifications
15:35:08 [nigel]
.. in early phases but [scribe missed]
15:35:18 [nigel]
Nigel: I'm really confused about this, I thought it was clear what we wanted.
15:35:58 [nigel]
Present+ Cyril
15:37:09 [nigel]
Pierre: I think we need to determine today if we need further review.
15:37:22 [nigel]
.. My understanding is we asked for HR and we got HR. Why do we need to do more?
15:37:44 [nigel]
.. Atsushi, this is super urgent, do we need to do more in the Process or are we good to go?
15:38:01 [nigel]
Atsushi: Let me comment on the a11y review request even though it is closed, to state that
15:38:15 [nigel]
.. this request was not an early draft review but a transition to CRS review.
15:38:30 [nigel]
Pierre: Would you mind doing this today so we can get clarity on this?
15:38:36 [nigel]
Atushi: I'm writing it now.
15:39:44 [nigel]
SUMMARY: Discussion concerned process not this issue specifically.
15:39:48 [nigel]
Topic: DAPT
15:41:13 [nigel]
Subtopic: Include registry data from external files w3c/dapt#326
15:41:25 [nigel]
github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/326
15:42:05 [nigel]
Nigel: I was implementing validation code and noticed that the registry data was only in HTML
15:42:15 [nigel]
.. in the spec, not useful for using programmatically elsewhere.
15:45:16 [nigel]
.. [shows the pull request data]
15:45:23 [nigel]
.. Any issues with this?
15:45:29 [nigel]
.. Different format for example?
15:45:46 [nigel]
Cyril: Thank you for this, it's good to isolate the data from the spec HTML
15:46:17 [nigel]
.. Regarding the format, GitHub renders CSV as a table, and makes it easy to edit.
15:46:52 [nigel]
Nigel: Interesting, I haven't thought about CSV.
15:47:04 [nigel]
Cyril: It's good as it is, but it would be easier to prepare pull requests if you can
15:47:16 [nigel]
.. see the proposed changes formatted nicely in GitHub. It's minor.
15:47:25 [nigel]
.. It's already great to separate the registry from the main spec.
15:48:08 [nigel]
Nigel: In the spirit of agility and iteration we could merge this now and change it in the future
15:48:10 [nigel]
.. if we need to.
15:48:14 [nigel]
Cyril: I like that idea.
15:48:51 [nigel]
Nigel: Thank you, any other points?
15:49:30 [nigel]
Atsushi: I somehow wonder about these functions and whether a single JSON file will be dynamically loaded two times.
15:49:45 [nigel]
.. Also if we want to include the registry table we may want to include the caption within the JSON
15:50:03 [nigel]
.. data. For content using table might it be better to be generic from the JSON file?
15:50:21 [nigel]
.. I'm actually not totally sure about this JSON file being used, but having some caption or title
15:50:41 [nigel]
.. could have a benefit for the users of the JSON file by itself.
15:51:27 [nigel]
Nigel: That is interesting. At the moment the caption text includes links to other places in the
15:51:35 [nigel]
.. specification, and they would not make sense in isolation.
15:52:17 [nigel]
.. I'm not worried about loading the data twice. Even if the browser doesn't cache it, the files
15:52:31 [nigel]
.. are small, and when we publish to TR the scripts are run in advance to produce the final
15:52:36 [nigel]
.. HTML so it's not an issue on /TR.
15:53:27 [nigel]
SUMMARY: Review to continue, early merge okay, further comments or suggestions welcome
15:53:48 [nigel]
Subtopic: Tests don't always set daptm:represents w3c/dapt-tests#41
15:53:56 [nigel]
github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt-tests/issues/41
15:54:47 [nigel]
Nigel: I found a load of valid tests that are not valid because of constraints around daptm:represents
15:55:12 [nigel]
.. and it's also an issue with invalid files where you might get them showing as invalid for the wrong reason.
15:55:23 [nigel]
.. So firstly I wanted to warn everyone, in case you're using these tests,
15:55:32 [nigel]
.. and secondly, I'll propose a fix.
15:55:47 [nigel]
SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to propose a fix for the affected tests
15:56:30 [nigel]
Topic: TPAC 2025 Planning
15:56:46 [nigel]
Nigel: From last meeting Gary had some actions to do offline, I don't think I've seen that yet.
15:58:05 [nigel]
.. We really need to know if people have timing constraints, especially if not attending in person,
15:58:14 [nigel]
.. for when particular topics get discussed.
15:58:25 [nigel]
.. If you are attending, please add yourself to the wiki page.
15:58:43 [nigel]
.. We'll have to move to offline discussion of planning because the next call on 23 October
15:59:14 [nigel]
.. has no Chair available at the moment. If anyone wants to Chair please let us know.
15:59:19 [nigel]
.. Otherwise we'll cancel.
16:00:04 [nigel]
.. I also propose that we don't hold a meeting the week after TPAC, to allow people to
16:00:12 [nigel]
.. recover and get on with the other things they need to do. Good idea?
16:00:15 [nigel]
Cyril: Yes, agree.
16:04:40 [nigel]
Topic: Meeting close
16:05:36 [nigel]
Nigel: Thanks everyone. Looks like our next meeting might be at TPAC, to be confirmed.
16:05:40 [nigel]
.. [adjourns meeting]
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rrsagent. make minutes
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s/rrsagent. make minutes//
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rrsagent, make minutes
16:11:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-tt-minutes.html nigel
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Chair: Nigel
16:11:39 [nigel]
Regrets: Gary
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rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-tt-minutes.html nigel
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scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostic
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zakim, end meeting
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As of this point the attendees have been Nigel, Astushi, Andreas, Pierre, Chris_Needham, Harold, Cyril
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RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-tt-minutes.html Zakim
16:15:27 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
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rrsagent, excuse us
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I see no action items