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15:49:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-rdf-star-irc
15:50:10 <ktk> meeting: RDF-star WG meeting
15:50:20 <ktk> Agenda:
15:50:23 <ktk> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e5234c80-4c06-4c6b-af43-c78a1dbd390a/20251009T120000/
15:50:23 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:50:23 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of last week’s minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:50:23 <agendabot> agenda+ Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8
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15:50:33 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:50:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
15:50:38 <ktk> RRSAgent, make log public
15:50:47 <ktk> present+
15:50:59 <AndyS> present+
15:51:00 <ktk> regrets+ pchampin
15:59:14 <gtw> present+
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16:01:47 <pfps> present+
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16:02:10 <Enrico> present+
16:02:26 <ora> present+
16:02:28 <ora> chair+
16:02:36 <olaf> present+
16:02:43 <tl> present+
16:03:01 <niklasl> present+
16:03:02 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
16:03:13 <fsasaki> present+
16:03:20 <AZ>  present+
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16:03:33 <william-vw> present+
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16:04:13 <Dominik_T> present+
16:04:16 <tl> scribe+
16:04:27 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
16:04:27 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of last week’s minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:07 <pfps> look ok to me
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16:05:12 <ora> PROPOSAL: Approve last week's minutes
16:05:15 <doerthe> present+
16:05:20 <ktk> +1
16:05:23 <Dominik_T> +1
16:05:24 <AZ> +1
16:05:24 <william-vw> +1
16:05:25 <niklasl> +1
16:05:29 <gtw> +1
16:05:30 <Enrico> +1
16:05:30 <ora> +0 (I was not there)
16:05:36 <tl> +1
16:05:39 <lisp> lisp has joined #rdf-star
16:05:39 <AndyS> +0.5 (partially present)
16:05:48 <lisp> present+
16:05:57 <olaf> +1
16:05:59 <fsasaki> +1
16:06:02 <pfps> +1
16:06:14 <ora> RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes
16:06:17 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:06:17 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:07:13 <tl> ora: let's see what enrico just sent to the mailing list
16:07:25 <AndyS> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2025Oct/0004.html
16:07:45 <tl> enrico: seems like pierre-antoines doesn't have a grave disagreement
16:08:11 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/pull/161
16:08:12 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/pull/161 -> Pull Request 161 Remove Appendix B (by franconi) [ms:CR]
16:08:31 <tl> ora: that's in teh part that goes away. don't see that as a problem. anybody opposed to merging that?
16:08:44 <tl> enrico: so i'll merge
16:08:45 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:08:48 <Souri> present+
16:08:51 <tl> ora: okay
16:09:30 <tl> pfps: no! some things won't go away
16:09:58 <tl> enrico: but we are deleting the whole section on [xxx]
16:11:01 <tl> enrico: aha, indeed
16:11:47 <tl> s/[xxx]/infinity
16:12:24 <tl> enrico: i misread a line. wil cerate a new PR, editorial
16:12:34 <tl> s/wil /will
16:12:52 <tl> ora: what about PR #160
16:12:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/160 -> Issue 160 Clarify the rules around PrefixDecl in the grammar where  PNAME_NS not unique (by JervenBolleman)
16:13:05 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/pull/160 -> Pull Request 160 Fixes correctness of Appendix A (from issue #139) (by franconi) [ms:CR]
16:14:07 <tl> pfps: had a PR to change on entailment rules, but can't find it right now (Enrico and me and Dörthe agreeing, but fighting with GitHub)
16:16:47 <tl> [... some people discussing GitHub specifics...]
16:17:07 <tl> s/specifics/technicalities
16:17:39 <tl> enrico: let's assume we _will_ merge after we figure out how
16:17:51 <tl> ora: so in substance this is settled
16:18:09 <tl> ... now let's go to issue #102
16:18:09 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/pull/102 -> MERGED Pull Request 102 Create miniCore.md (by rat10)
16:18:30 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/102
16:18:31 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/102 -> Issue 102 Check if the interpolation lemma is still true given the new semantics (by franconi) [ms:CR] [propose closing] [spec:enhancement] [spec:substantive]
16:18:33 <tl> enrico: agreement with dörthe and pfps
16:19:04 <tl> ... no merge to be done, just close the issue
16:19:38 <tl> ktk: is there still an open question?
16:20:18 <lisp> q+
16:20:21 <tl> enrico: we all believe that the interpolation lemma is true, we just need to agree on a written statement so this can be used a stonewalled reference
16:20:33 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/162 -> Issue 162 Checking and updating Appendix C "Proofs of some results" (by franconi) [ms:CR]
16:20:40 <tl> s/used a /used as a
16:21:21 <ora> ack lisp
16:21:54 <tl> james: wondering why it is that you don't want to record this stone walled truth, when it is only discussed on github?
16:22:22 <tl> enrico: this proof was not in the RDF 1.1 spec, so we feel that we shouldn't now
16:22:32 <tl> james: as a reader i would be curious
16:22:42 <tl> enrico: we can add it to appendic C
16:23:00 <tl> james: that would meet my expectazions as a reader
16:23:18 <niklasl> Sounds reasonable to me.
16:23:20 <tl> ktk: findability woulld be much improved
16:23:34 <tl> enrico: will make a PR to that effect
16:24:07 <tl> ora: what else, where are we with IRI resolution?
16:24:10 <Souri> s/appendic/appendix/
16:24:26 <tl> andys: i need to get the RDF concepts text, still tbd
16:24:44 <tl> s/expectazions/expectations
16:26:05 <tl> ... did go through concepts doc. there are 4 issue that need to be resolved, only one looking problematic. will send email to pierre-antoine. concerns unstar-mapping
16:26:14 <AndyS> https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-concepts/#conformance
16:26:17 <Dominik_T> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248
16:26:18 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/248 -> Issue 248 Resolve "Editor's notes" (by afs) [ms:CR]
16:26:22 <tl> ... wrt conformance
16:26:58 <tl> ... reference to "tentative levels" should be removed
16:27:50 <tl> ... i see no action in the WG to follow through with it. but maybe niklas or pierre-antoiune can confirm
16:28:05 <tl> niklas: spontaneously i agree to remove it
16:28:21 <tl> ora: where is the unstar algorithm?
16:28:33 <tl> niklas: there is a document somewhere
16:28:36 <tl> q+
16:28:43 <ora> ack tl
16:28:57 <niklasl> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-interop
16:29:19 <niklasl> https://w3c.github.io/rdf-interop/spec/
16:29:24 <tl> tl: unstar should be included before CR
16:29:47 <tl> andys: should be moved to after CR
16:30:00 <niklasl> Looks like it should be https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-12-interop/ but 404 for now
16:30:12 <tl> ... would prefer to have a link to the document
16:30:39 <tl> ... i will follow through on that
16:31:08 <AndyS> Editors note -- https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-concepts/#conformance
16:31:20 <niklasl> Then there's https://niklasl.github.io/rdf-struct-patterns/spec/ which I've only discussed a bit with pchampin so far
16:31:50 <tl> ora: other editors notes?
16:32:04 <tl> andys: nothing needing discussion
16:32:33 <AndyS> s/should be moved to after CR/can be linked to rdf-interop when not 404/
16:33:32 <tl> ora: we have a bigger issue coming up in acknowledging peoples contributions, but not critical for CR
16:35:36 <william-vw> ora do you have a link for the post?
16:35:58 <tl> .... there was apost on linked in by curt cagle misrepresenting RDF 1.2. i think we'll see more poeple talking about this work, and we all need to be vigilant and make sure to not let this work get misrepresented
16:36:04 <william-vw> thanks
16:36:22 <tl> s/curt cagle/kurt kagle
16:36:39 <ktk> Post on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kurtcagle_reifications-update-activity-7380859705457377281-xrmH?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&rcm=ACoAAAAAIu0Bc7FRJR3kKvggdnvulXNLj298V8U
16:36:48 <tl> s/kurt kagle/curt kagle
16:37:06 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:37:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:37:16 <tl> s/curt kagle/Kurt Cagle
16:37:55 <tl> ora: we should learn from those comments, maybe improve the primer, etc
16:38:13 <tl> ... reification historically has been misunderstood. we need to be careful
16:38:24 <tl> ... anything else?
16:38:26 <ktk> q+
16:38:43 <ora> ack ktk
16:39:27 <william-vw> note that there is a comment section on the page, so anyone is free to provide comments (and contradict some of the points he is making)
16:39:42 <tl> ktk: rdf concepts - pierre-antoine. w3c process would have removed gregg kellogg as editor because he died, but that is resolved, and he will stay there
16:40:32 <tl> ora: we will need to figure out how to acknowledge gregg's massive contributions. there is some version of the epub spec that defines how to handle this
16:40:39 <tl> ... suggestions welcome
16:40:50 <niklasl> https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-33/#ack
16:41:07 <tl> ktk: rdf xml
16:42:06 <tl> ora: gregg was editor of rdf/xml spec, and now there is no editor. we asked jerven bolleman if he wants to step in, as his institute makes heavy use of it. first feedback was positive, but clarification needed
16:42:21 <niklasl> q+
16:42:28 <ora> ack niklasl
16:42:35 <tl> andys: what's teh current state of teh document?
16:42:56 <AndyS> s/teh/the/
16:43:07 <tl> niklasl: i may be able to help
16:43:15 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-schema/issues/65 -> Issue 65 update editor list (by domel) [spec:editorial]
16:44:57 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/51
16:44:58 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/51 -> Issue 51 Support Named Graphs (by FabienGandon) [ms:future-work] [spec:new-feature]
16:44:59 <tl> andys: close issue on named graphs
16:45:31 <tl> s/andys: close issue on named graphs/andys: propose to close issue on named graphs, as it's future work
16:45:53 <tl> ... opens a can of worms, as there is no one answer
16:46:09 <tl> ora: perfect for future leaving standard
16:46:22 <ora> s/leaving/living
16:47:12 <tl> andys: we can't just add features, we need input and community experience
16:47:24 <tl> ora: lets make it go away
16:48:57 <tl> enrico: new issue of some proofs that miss "and triple terms"
16:49:15 <tl> pfps: not much change needed
16:49:42 <tl> ktk: what would be next if we go to CR?
16:50:10 <tl> s/next/next documents to tackle
16:50:20 <tl> andys: syntax
16:50:40 <tl> ... schema, primer, structures and patterns
16:50:48 <tl> ... the notes that we discussed
16:51:00 <tl> ora: primer would be very important
16:51:26 <niklasl> q+
16:51:32 <ora> ack niklasl
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16:51:48 <niklasl> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-common/issues/14
16:51:49 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-common/issues/14 -> Issue 14 Enable Github pages on this repository to load by URL rather than local copies (by niklasl)
16:51:50 <tl> s/if we go to CR/after if we go to CR
16:52:43 <tl> niklasl: implement linking instead of copying in all documents
16:53:02 <tl> ... when will we go to CR with concepts
16:54:03 <tl> ora: to start horizontal review we need to make issues to record feedback, seems they are not cerated yet, so we'll have to do that next week
16:54:18 <tl> ... any other business?
16:54:24 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:54:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:54:32 <tl> ... no.
16:54:49 <tl> ... adjoured
16:55:00 <tl> s/adjoured/adjourned
16:55:36 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:55:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:56:59 <ktk> s/teh/the/
16:56:59 <ktk> s/woulld/would/
16:56:59 <ktk> s/willcerate/will create/
16:56:59 <ktk> s/peoples/people's/
16:56:59 <ktk> s/astonewalled/a stonewalled/
16:57:01 <ktk> s/apost/a post/
16:57:04 <ktk> s/poeple/people/
16:57:07 <ktk> s/antoiune/Antoine/
16:57:09 <ktk> s/cerated/created/
16:57:12 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:57:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
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18:24:02 <ktk> RRSAgent, end meeting
18:24:02 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'end meeting', ktk.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:24:11 <ktk> Zakim, leave
18:24:11 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been ktk, AndyS, AZ, gtw, william-vw, pchampin, olaf, doerthe, lisp, tl, Dominik_T, niklasl, fsasaki, TallTed, Souri, pfps, Enrico,
18:24:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
18:24:14 <Zakim> ... ora
18:24:17 <ktk> RRSAgent, leave
18:24:17 <RRSAgent> I see no action items