14:01:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pm-dc
14:01:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-pm-dc-irc
14:01:46 <shiestyle> zakim, start the meeting
14:01:46 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:01:48 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), shiestyle
14:01:56 <shiestyle> Meeting: Digital Comics TF
14:02:03 <shiestyle> Chair: Shinya Takami, Hadrien Gardeur
14:02:11 <shiestyle> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-pm-dc-minutes.html shiestyle
14:06:29 <shiestyle> Topic: PR for Support for roll in layout
14:06:36 <shiestyle> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/2788
14:07:26 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #pm-dc
14:07:47 <LaurentLM> LaurentLM has joined #pm-dc
14:07:59 <LaurentLM> present+
14:08:06 <shiestyle> present+
14:08:06 <duga> duga has joined #pm-dc
14:08:07 <CharlesL1> present+
14:08:09 <Hadrien> present+
14:08:11 <duga> present+
14:08:13 <CharlesL1> q+
14:08:13 <duga> scribe+
14:08:28 <shiestyle> ack CharlesL1
14:08:30 <shiestyle> ack CharlesL
14:08:52 <duga> CharlesL1: One question, we have a new rendition layout role, comics used to be fixed, right?
14:08:54 <Hadrien> q+
14:09:02 <duga> ... what do we now expect with this change?
14:09:20 <shiestyle> ack Hadrien
14:09:23 <duga> ... what will reading systems do differently?
14:09:46 <duga> Hadrien: pre-paginated is the current value, the expectation is you may find one or the other
14:10:02 <duga> ... in pre-paginated every resource is a page, maybe with layout hints
14:10:20 <duga> ... similar to print comics
14:10:59 <duga> ... with roll, you will fit to the width of the viewport, and you can scroll through with no gaps
14:11:08 <duga> ... looks like a single image to the user
14:11:17 <shiestyle> q+
14:11:21 <duga> ... There are some open issues, like direction
14:11:46 <LaurentLM> q+
14:12:02 <duga> ... and direction may change how fit works (e.g. left-to-right might fit height)
14:12:32 <duga> ... There may be some publications that have multiple rolls (e.g. a collection of web comics)
14:12:37 <duga> ... this is an open issue
14:13:15 <duga> ... the idea is instead of rendering controls, we would provide semantics that identify chapters or episodes, then leave it the RS to decide display
14:13:18 <shiestyle> ack me
14:13:32 <duga> shiestyle: Roll will not have spread
14:13:46 <shiestyle> ack LaurentLM
14:14:33 <duga> LaurentLM: In the PR, it says "fixed dimensions", but in our case it is 1 fixed dimension
14:14:46 <duga> Hadrien: But you are confusing viewport and images
14:15:01 <duga> LaurentLM: I am not sure if I am speaking about images
14:15:27 <duga> Hadrien: Which is why I am not pushing the PR at the moment, since a lot changes with images in spine
14:16:00 <duga> LaurentLM: So why is it fixed dimenions?
14:16:11 <duga> Hadrien: It doesn't matter, we will probably discard a lot of it
14:16:45 <duga> ... we originally grouped FL and roll, but we may not need to if we allow images in spine
14:16:46 <shiestyle> q?
14:17:42 <duga> ... I don't think this will get much work or discussion until TPAC where we decide on images in spine
14:18:16 <duga> shiestyle: We still have time before TPAC, we should finalize there
14:18:27 <duga> ... but we can still discuss now
14:19:01 <duga> Hadrien: Looks like we only have the week before TPAC given schedules, do you really want to discuss images in spine then?
14:19:42 <duga> shiestyle: we will have another meeting before tpac
14:20:05 <duga> Hadrien: So you want to discuss images in spine during that call? It will take the entire call
14:20:15 <duga> shiestyle: We can arrange it
14:20:58 <shiestyle> Topic: Topics of Digital Comics to be discussed at TPAC
14:21:22 <duga> shiestyle: We are just starting TPAC planning in the WG
14:21:56 <duga> ... Tuesday morning is for the BG, so really only 1.5 days for WG
14:22:26 <Hadrien> q+
14:22:33 <duga> ... we can propose which of the remaining slots we want to use
14:22:58 <duga> ... I heard some a11y people will not be there in person
14:23:16 <shiestyle> q?
14:23:22 <shiestyle> ack Hadrien
14:23:25 <duga> ... I was thinking afternoon, any ideas?
14:23:51 <duga> Hadrien: I am not sure about who from Europe will be remote who is interested in these topics?
14:24:39 <duga> ... so remotely just Romain and Ivan from Europe
14:25:18 <duga> shiestyle: There are bunch of remotes (Sue, Dale, Matt)
14:25:48 <duga> ... so maybe early morning is fine
14:26:12 <duga> CharlesL1: 9am jst is 5pm or 8pm for those people
14:26:25 <duga> ... so maybe that is the best time
14:27:02 <duga> shiestyle: Maybe day 1 first slot
14:27:40 <duga> q+
14:27:50 <shiestyle> ack duga
14:28:33 <duga> duga: Kind of doesn't matter, since many of these people must attend all sessions
14:28:55 <duga> Hadrien: Good point, what about you CharlesL1? What is good?
14:29:08 <duga> CharlesL1: Earlier is better
14:29:22 <duga> Hadrien: So comics and a11y early are best for you?
14:29:25 <duga> CharlesL1: Yes
14:29:44 <duga> q+
14:29:52 <shiestyle> ack duga
14:30:48 <duga> CharlesL1: why is the first slot at 11 on day 2?
14:31:03 <duga> shiestyle: Business group will meet first
14:31:24 <Hadrien> q+
14:31:35 <shiestyle> ack Hadrien
14:31:48 <duga> Hadrien: I have a list of things to discuss
14:32:03 <duga> ... images in spine is biggest, we should discuss then
14:32:26 <duga> ... also default behavior for spreads
14:32:46 <duga> ... there is a disconnect between the spec and reality, it is important to clarify
14:32:58 <duga> ... Also issue 2759
14:33:14 <duga> s/issue/pr/
14:33:32 <Hadrien> Images in spine
14:33:32 <Hadrien> * https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2792
14:33:32 <Hadrien> Default behavior when drawing spreads
14:33:32 <Hadrien> * https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2755
14:33:33 <Hadrien> Deprecating rendition properties
14:33:33 <Hadrien> * Layout overrides: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2749
14:33:33 <Hadrien> * Flow as metadata: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2754
14:33:34 <Hadrien> * Flow overrides: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2750
14:33:34 <Hadrien> * Orientation: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2751
14:33:34 <Hadrien> * Spreads: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2753
14:33:35 <Hadrien> New document division terms for comics
14:33:35 <Hadrien> * https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2759
14:34:59 <duga> Hadrien: Any other issues specific to comics?
14:35:23 <duga> ... there is nothing about accessible comics here since that is experimental
14:35:43 <duga> ... So maybe a breakout session for that. CharlesL1 would you be interested?
14:36:01 <duga> CharlesL1: Yes, definitely. E.g. people from the APA may have ideas
14:36:15 <duga> Hadrien: We have until Oct 22 to propose sessions
14:36:20 <duga> +1
14:36:38 <duga> +1 to a breakout
14:37:03 <duga> LaurentLM: I agree with a breakout, not too long though
14:37:13 <shiestyle> q?
14:37:16 <duga> Hadrien: Ok, we have some votes for that
14:37:48 <duga> q+
14:38:05 <duga> Hadrien: avif is important for us, but not much to say
14:38:23 <duga> ... but not controversial
14:38:34 <duga> ... so I didn't put it on the list
14:39:10 <duga> shiestyle: I just started to inform people in Japan about it
14:39:18 <shiestyle> ack duga
14:40:29 <duga> duga: Maybe pull rendition properties to a separate slot?
14:40:38 <duga> Hadrien: I agree, it is not just for comics
14:41:10 <duga> Hadrien: PR for roll should be right after images in spine
14:42:48 <shiestyle> q?
14:43:11 <duga> shiestyle: Other topics?
14:44:34 <duga> ... what do we want to discuss before tpac?
14:44:53 <duga> Hadrien: We need to discuss images in spine, but that should probably be in the WG
14:45:22 <duga> ... so do we really need a call for the TF in addition?
14:45:52 <duga> CharlesL1: Don't forget the APA meeting, which may take a full meeting slot before TPAC
14:46:25 <duga> Hadrien: Maybe see what the WG can handle, but if we can get to images in spine we can just cancel the next TF meeting
14:46:52 <duga> shiestyle: Ok, I will raise that in the chairs call
14:47:14 <duga> ... I think we should also skip the Nov 6 meeting, since it is so close to tpac
14:47:15 <shiestyle> q?
14:47:31 <shiestyle> Topic: AOB
14:48:47 <CharlesL1> CharlesL1 has left #pm-dc
14:49:14 <shiestyle> zakim, end the meeting
14:49:14 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been LaurentLM, shiestyle, CharlesL, Hadrien, duga
14:49:16 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:49:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-pm-dc-minutes.html Zakim
14:49:24 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, shiestyle; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:49:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pm-dc
14:50:40 <shiestyle> present+ MasakazuKitahar
14:50:55 <shiestyle> zakim, end the meeting
15:05:48 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #pm-dc
15:05:57 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-pm-dc-minutes.html ivan
15:07:04 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #pm-dc
15:13:23 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
15:13:23 <RRSAgent> I see no action items