14:04:48 RRSAgent has joined #ag 14:04:52 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/07-ag-irc 14:04:52 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:04:53 Meeting: AGWG Teleconference 14:04:57 chair: Chuck 14:05:08 meeting: AGWG-2025-10-07 14:05:16 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:05:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/07-ag-minutes.html Chuck 14:05:40 ○ agenda+ WCAG 2 Proposed Changes https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0010.html 14:05:54 agenda+ WCAG 3 provisions review (introduction) 14:07:57 regrets: Todd Libby 14:31:39 nat_tarnoff has joined #ag 14:53:02 present+ 14:57:17 Francis_Storr has joined #ag 14:57:47 present+ 15:00:01 Adam_Page has joined #ag 15:00:14 Charu has joined #ag 15:00:19 GreggVan has joined #ag 15:01:14 Jennie_Delisi has joined #ag 15:01:19 BrianE has joined #ag 15:01:56 GN015 has joined #ag 15:02:00 present+ 15:02:01 present+ 15:02:03 bbailey has joined #ag 15:02:17 Azlan has joined #ag 15:02:19 filippo-zorzi has joined #ag 15:02:23 kirkwood has joined #ag 15:02:24 present+ 15:02:24 present+ 15:02:24 giacomo-petri has joined #ag 15:02:28 present+ 15:02:36 present+ 15:02:37 present+ 15:02:40 And there was a good advert for the intro-meeting... 15:02:41 mfairchild has joined #ag 15:02:46 zakim, agenda? 15:02:46 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 15:02:47 1. WCAG 3 provisions review (introduction) [from Chuck] 15:03:00 present+ 15:03:10 present+ 15:03:13 zakim, pick a scribe 15:03:13 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose mbgower 15:03:22 present+ 15:03:39 Makoto has joined #ag 15:03:50 zakim, pick a scribe 15:03:50 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Detlev 15:03:59 * Future award for best reason why you cannot? 15:04:06 zakim, pick a scribe 15:04:06 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jennie_Delisi 15:04:13 s/* Future award for best reason why you cannot?/ 15:04:25 CarrieH has joined #ag 15:04:25 ShawnT has joined #ag 15:04:33 zakim, pick a scribe 15:04:33 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose BrianE 15:04:36 present+ 15:04:38 present+ 15:04:45 zakim, pick a scribe 15:04:45 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Poornima 15:04:50 Mbgower has joined #ag 15:04:54 joryc has joined #ag 15:05:01 present+ 15:05:02 zakim, pick a scribe 15:05:02 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose filippo-zorzi 15:05:10 zakim, pick a scribe 15:05:10 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose alastairc 15:05:21 zakim, pick a scribe 15:05:21 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ShawnT 15:05:29 zakim, pick a scribe 15:05:29 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose giacomo-petri 15:05:34 can't scribe sorry 15:05:38 zakim, pick a scribe 15:05:38 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Glenda 15:05:54 Rain has joined #ag 15:05:59 zakim, pick a scribe 15:05:59 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Makoto 15:06:04 present+ 15:06:20 zakim, pick a scribe 15:06:20 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JeanneEC 15:06:27 Present+ 15:06:45 julierawe has joined #ag 15:06:48 stevef has joined #ag 15:06:53 present+ 15:06:53 zakim, pick a scribe 15:06:53 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jen_G 15:07:01 present+ 15:07:09 scribe+ joryc 15:07:32 Chuck: Housekeeping.. any introductions? 15:07:56 q+ 15:08:10 agenda? 15:08:16 agenda? 15:08:40 agenda+ WCAG 2 Proposed Changes https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0010.html 15:08:58 zakim, take up item 2 15:08:58 agendum 2 -- WCAG 2 Proposed Changes https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0010.html -- taken up [from Chuck] 15:09:25 graham has joined #ag 15:09:29 present+ 15:09:36 ack me 15:10:19 Chuck: Taking up WCAG 3 provisions review. Bruce will cover this in Mike Gower's absence. 15:10:35 bbailey: Please review the list in the email and comment with a thumbs up/down https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0010.html 15:10:54 present+ 15:10:59 laura has joined #ag 15:11:09 bbailey: We are releasing a new version of the errata page soon 15:11:21 present+ Laura_Carlson 15:11:52 present+ 15:12:19 q+ 15:12:36 https://www.w3.org/wbs/35422/audio-desc-wcag2/ 15:13:06 ack ala 15:13:07 bbailey: we are at more than 2K comments. We are about to hit a milestone where we have 50/50 ratio of open/closed items. Look for a survey on Audio Description soon. We want your opinion on videos that lack a gap in speaking into which to place AD. 15:14:13 q- 15:14:21 alastairc: There are potential updates to WCAG 2 that will use the feedback from the survey and it will inform WCAG 3 15:14:28 q+ 15:14:37 ack julie 15:14:52 q+ 15:14:56 ack Gregg 15:15:13 julierwe: is there a description of what constitutes "important visual information"? 15:15:19 bbailey: No 15:16:48 GreggVan: When we talk about AD, we are talking about the process of using gaps to add description to materials that lack it. It seems the question comes down to whether or not we fail a video that does not have space for AD 15:17:29 AlinaV has joined #ag 15:17:52 present+ 15:17:53 GreggVan: Concerned that the survey may create a bias because it "skips over the real conundrum" of whether or not we fail a video without spaces. 15:18:16 Ben_Tillyer has joined #ag 15:18:17 q+ 15:18:20 present+ 15:18:29 ack bb 15:19:00 q+ 15:19:07 zakim, agenda? 15:19:07 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda: 15:19:08 1. WCAG 3 provisions review (introduction) [from Chuck] 15:19:08 2. WCAG 2 Proposed Changes https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2025OctDec/0010.html [from Chuck] 15:19:41 q+ 15:19:56 ack ala 15:19:57 bbailey: We are trying to create a survey that presents the question in a way that presents both sides 15:20:38 alastairc: I'd like people to take the survey as it is, we can discuss it afterwards. 15:20:42 ack Ch 15:20:54 zakim, take up item 1 15:20:54 agendum 1 -- WCAG 3 provisions review (introduction) -- taken up [from Chuck] 15:21:11 Can you resend a link to the mentioned survey? I do seem to find it. 15:21:34 Chuck: Moving to WCA3 provisions review. We would like to review the edits that have been done recently 15:21:57 s/Can you resend a link to the mentioned survey? I do seem to find it.// 15:22:20 rrsagent/ draft minutes 15:22:23 alastairc: Sharing links and screen. Last week editors and sub-group leads met up to go through the WCAG 3 requirements to normalize the formatting. 15:22:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:22:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/07-ag-minutes.html bbailey 15:22:37 LoriO has joined #ag 15:22:37 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vFgaAY7F1lIuQX8z2O4BrXdKC1Y-cfnda8EESct6iho/edit?gid=0#gid=0 15:22:49 alastairc: We now have a new draft: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vFgaAY7F1lIuQX8z2O4BrXdKC1Y-cfnda8EESct6iho/edit?gid=0#gid=0 15:23:05 present+ 15:24:08 s/Taking up WCAG 3 provisions review. Bruce/Taking up WCAG 2x issues review. Bruce/ 15:24:48 Jen_G has joined #ag 15:25:35 alastairc: We thought the best way to review this would be to actually use it. Over the next week or two, please test the new draft of the guidelines by using it to test an actual site. Use the notes column in the testing sheet to comment on how it was to use the guideline. We also have a document that has the full text of all the guidelines. 15:25:38 s\rrsagent/ draft minutes\\ 15:25:40 Present+ 15:25:51 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Szzc87DUdZNlDUrjEEhU2HnoYLSIzfpiQbmFSghL5NI/edit?tab=t.0 15:26:29 alastairc: if something in the spreadsheet does not make sense, refer to the large document with all the guideline text: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Szzc87DUdZNlDUrjEEhU2HnoYLSIzfpiQbmFSghL5NI/edit?tab=t.0 15:26:37 q+ 15:26:44 qq+ 15:27:17 ack kevin 15:27:17 kevin, you wanted to react to Chuck 15:27:25 q+ to ask about opening subgroup rooms 15:27:26 alastairc: we will split into the subgroups for each group to review their sections. 15:27:57 kevin: please make a copy of the spreadsheet and save it in the same folder to record your feedback 15:28:30 ack Gregg 15:28:39 https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1b8ccocczCONPFokE6y6bAMckMcQMHJqT 15:28:52 GreggVan: are we supposed to have user needs on this spreadsheet? 15:29:12 ack ch 15:29:12 Chuck, you wanted to ask about opening subgroup rooms 15:29:28 alastairc: Yes, user needs can be found in the guideline tab of the large document with all of the guideline text 15:29:53 kevin: The folder for the copies of the spreadsheet is here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1b8ccocczCONPFokE6y6bAMckMcQMHJqT 15:30:21 present+ 15:30:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:30:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/07-ag-minutes.html bbailey 15:31:00 alastairc: we have also been tagging each requirement with tags like "Functional Performance" , "DAF", "POUR" 15:31:17 q+ 15:31:39 q+ 15:32:07 alastair: demonstrating the process of creating a copy of the spreadsheet to work from 15:32:13 ack bb 15:32:15 imirfan has joined #ag 15:32:28 bbailey: should each subgroup make a copy or EACH person? 15:33:02 alastairc: EACH person, we expect this will take 4 hours but we are also providing some meeting time for this. 15:33:03 q+ 15:33:06 ack Gregg 15:33:35 GreggVan: It is essential that you add you name to the filename of your copy. 15:33:46 q+ 15:34:11 ack Ch 15:34:23 LenB has joined #ag 15:34:30 present+ 15:34:55 Chuck: if subgroups pick their area first we will get good coverage, but make sure to do the other guidelines as well. 15:35:18 ack Ch 15:35:20 ack bb 15:35:21 q+ 15:35:40 julierawe has joined #ag 15:35:43 q+ 15:35:52 ack Gregg 15:36:17 q+ on naming and participation 15:36:36 Q+ 15:37:09 GreggVan: I'm worried that we may have fewer people if people put their names on it because it may be intimidating. You might get more feedback if your don't require names. 15:37:33 ack Rach 15:38:20 q+ to add to Gregg's points on files with names attached 15:38:24 q- 15:38:29 Can you please reshare the links? IRC kicked me off 15:38:39 Rachael: The point of this is to look at the wording, to deeply think about the wording. We want everyone, regardless of level of experience to try this. 15:38:43 ack julie 15:38:48 back 15:38:59 https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1b8ccocczCONPFokE6y6bAMckMcQMHJqT 15:39:06 q+ 15:39:09 ack Ben 15:39:09 Ben_Tillyer, you wanted to add to Gregg's points on files with names attached 15:39:27 q+ 15:39:37 ack Gregg 15:39:56 Ben_Tillyer: notes that Google drive will attach your name to the edits even if you don't include your name in the filename 15:41:16 ack ala 15:41:22 GreggVan: people can add their inputs as questions if they are not confident. the most valuable feedback is from those who may have less experience 15:42:31 alastairc: This is a "no dumb questions" scenario. We need to know what bits people don't understand. If you prefer you can send a spreadsheet directly to the chairs for anonymity 15:42:39 q 15:42:41 q= 15:42:43 q+ 15:42:47 s/q// 15:42:52 ack kevin 15:43:03 Copied over from Zoom Chat pane: Filippo Zorzi 16:37 15:43:03 There are some failed link in the table, like cell C127 or C182 15:43:21 s/q=// 15:43:24 Q+ 15:43:34 s/Copied over from Zoom Chat pane: Filippo Zorzi 16:37// 15:43:37 ack Rach 15:43:38 s/There are some failed link in the table, like cell C127 or C182// 15:43:53 rrsagent, make minutes 15:43:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/07-ag-minutes.html kevin 15:44:13 q+ 15:44:28 ack julie 15:44:49 q+ 15:44:53 s/+// 15:44:59 ack adam 15:45:34 q+ 15:45:39 ack kevin 15:47:05 rrsagent, make minutes 15:47:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/07-ag-minutes.html kevin 15:57:41 Adam_Page - you're welcome back in the main room if you'd like to talk to someone. 16:14:29 thanks, alastairc — hdv joined me in the breakout room and shared some additional helpful info; I’m good to go with this exercise 👍🏻 17:02:21 mfairchild has joined #ag 18:01:34 Adam_Page has joined #ag 18:04:16 kirkwood has joined #ag 18:46:43 Jem has joined #ag 19:28:09 mfairchild has joined #ag