14:55:18 RRSAgent has joined #coga 14:55:22 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/06-coga-irc 14:55:22 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:55:23 Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 14:55:28 chair: julierawe 14:55:34 present+ julierawe 14:55:51 Meeting: COGA Task Force meeting 14:56:00 date: 06 oct 2025 14:56:14 zakim, clear agenda 14:56:14 agenda cleared 14:56:27 Agenda+ WCAG 3 update 14:56:42 agenda+ Thoughts on new W3C logo? 14:57:53 agenda+ Key questions to consider about the 3rd V2 pattern: Use clear visible labels 14:58:32 New logo: https://www.w3.org/press-releases/2025/new-logo/ 14:58:47 Eric_hind has joined #coga 14:58:51 present+ 14:58:54 Use clear visible labels: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uAVRkNIgd3XlUIGQ6Gq-ZOcnwsFvIM9UJ1dNyHq8NSQ/edit?pli=1&tab=t.bzlxq1ykahxq 15:00:31 I can scribe 15:00:42 EA present+ 15:00:58 scribe+ 15:01:39 Thank you, EA! 15:02:04 scribe+EA 15:02:17 Becca_Monteleone has joined #coga 15:02:25 Rain has joined #coga 15:02:25 present+ 15:02:51 present+ 15:03:10 Discussion about citing references and how this will take place. Plan is in place 15:03:41 zakim, next item 15:03:41 agendum 1 -- WCAG 3 update -- taken up [from julierawe] 15:03:45 Charli has joined #coga 15:03:55 present+ 15:04:10 LenB has joined #coga 15:04:20 present+ 15:04:37 Update on WCAG 3 - All sections discussed - refined and where user needs were not specified, methods and tests - these were added. 15:05:28 Plain Language was discussed with 20 requirements added out of 200 - will be shared with Coga and AG - conformance models questioned 15:06:13 The problem seems to be the need for requirements and assertions before conformance can happen. - Will be topic of tomorrows AG meeting plus new draft and will be shared with coga 15:07:21 Taking what people were discussing sub-groups - tallied 150 foundational requirements and only a small number of the requirements - so what should be foundational - consider the do no harm requirements - small group 10 requirements or fewer 15:08:09 But need to compare these to absolute blockers that might be a bigger group - foundational versus supplemental to be discussed 15:08:21 q+ 15:08:31 ack Eric_hind 15:08:54 Eric asked if this process would be seen as an official mile stone 15:09:06 Julie said unofficial 15:11:21 In Sept exploratory to developmental published but what has been left off is now being tackled - so using consistent and design elements still need to be discussed as part of the working draft . e.g. expexted behaviour as an item that has been left out so far.... now this week's document will fill the gaps of those things left out - so most have 15:11:21 been developed 15:11:48 Few things will still be at the exploratory stage - a lot of work has been done to achieve this state of affairs 15:12:41 As we get feedback on the draft the next version will be in a better state by December. - So no check box to go out the public 15:13:30 Julie said that WCAG 3 probably will not be published to the public until another year or more. Conformance is where the discussions need to happen 15:14:47 zakim, next item 15:14:47 agendum 2 -- Thoughts on new W3C logo? -- taken up [from julierawe] 15:14:50 Updated draft will be shared soon - Julie went through all the comments that had been sent in and checked what had not been added in late Agust and early Sept and got those item into the draft 15:15:13 https://www.w3.org/press-releases/2025/new-logo/ 15:16:21 q+ 15:16:43 The link above is going to the new W3C logo - It appears that the image is now accepted as the final version unless there are complaints 15:16:56 +1 to John and Julie's comments 15:17:14 It is not necessarily readable by everyone - looks rather too abstract 15:17:42 No one sees the W and even the 3 is difficult to work out. 15:18:02 present+ 15:18:14 https://www.w3.org/press-releases/2025/new-logo/ 15:18:19 Rain asked if there was any reasoning behind the choice of logo. - We need help to understand how it was chosen 15:18:45 The link above provides some more information and is a press release about the logo 15:20:17 it is meant to represent the DNA as the heart of the web - "It has a curl that resembles a heart. This imagery communicates that W3C is the 'DNA at the heart of the web'." 15:21:27 q+ 15:22:25 ack rain 15:22:37 Many attendees were not keen on the logo and it is already being used as a icon on the website tabs - they did not appear to seek the groups advice 15:24:01 Need to document as a cognitive task force whether there are any real blockers to the symbol rather than just feelings of dislike as this could be important. 15:24:25 q+ 15:24:25 q+ 15:24:56 ack ea 15:25:44 EA shared concerns that it's not like any scripts used around the world. Was the internationalization working group consulted on this logo? 15:26:14 EA Does it look similar to a script that someone reads in their everyday language? Cambodian, Thai, Lao, etc 15:26:30 ack charli 15:27:08 strikes me as a medical logo 15:27:10 Charlie is concerned about the anatomical part of the DNA - may cause embarrassment. 15:29:06 John K mentioned whether there was any usability test and visual perceptual difficulties were considered. 15:29:36 zakim, next item 15:29:36 agendum 3 -- Key questions to consider about the 3rd V2 pattern: Use clear visible labels -- taken up [from julierawe] 15:30:35 Migrating patterns from Making Content Usable v1 to v2 - this is taking time and there still needs to be some alignment on wording 15:30:37 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uAVRkNIgd3XlUIGQ6Gq-ZOcnwsFvIM9UJ1dNyHq8NSQ/edit?pli=1&tab=t.bzlxq1ykahxq#heading=h.pcu5m13uuzk 15:31:16 Link to Use Clear Visible Labels - look at comments - screen shared. 15:32:15 Pattern is mainly about the interactive controls on a page e.g. icon controls - what is there for inorder to achieve something. 15:35:08 How it helps - linked to related personas - links go to the original version of Making Content Usable. - now have 8 personas and plan to add a persona who may have a mental health issue. May have schizophrenia - 15:35:37 q+ 15:35:42 ack rain 15:36:07 Julia posed a question - do we need to have every user story feeding into a separate persona or can we share personas - but also can have stories elsewhere. 15:36:30 Don't need to wait till we have a full set of personas 15:37:09 Julie asked how long is too long for an expanded user story - should be keep short and skimmable - 15:37:28 Rain felt they could be longer as most stories are explandable. 15:39:46 Clear visible labels pattern includes heading structure - does this belong in this section 15:40:34 Rain said this is not a label thing and this example should be in a different pattern. 15:41:21 Headers are used incorrectly and this affects the text to speech output - need to realise it is not actually a header but a label. 15:42:00 This causes confusion and the same can happen with incorrect use of CSS 15:43:26 Went on to discuss alternatives and will provide other examples 15:44:56 Julie asked if everyone could read through the draft and send back comments before more work was done 15:45:56 kirkwood asked when the next COGA and Coffee meeting will be. 15:46:04 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:46:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/06-coga-minutes.html julierawe 15:48:26 tiffanyburtin has joined #coga 16:03:43 Good W3C Logo intro: https://youtu.be/fnaXvtnP6s0 16:06:13 https://www.w3.org/press-releases/2025/new-logo/