13:07:29 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 13:07:34 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-wot-td-irc 13:07:34 scribenick: mjk 13:07:34 Zakim has joined #wot-td 13:07:37 chair: Ege_Korkan, Michael_Koster 13:07:40 Meeting: WoT Thing Description 13:07:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:07:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-wot-td-minutes.html Ege 13:07:50 rrsagent, make log public 13:08:22 present+ Ege_Korkan, Michael_Koster, Daniel_Peintner, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Kunihiko_Toumura, Vignesh_Vaidyanathan, Henk_Spaaj 13:08:35 q+ 13:08:38 q+ 13:08:39 q? 13:08:41 q? 13:08:47 ack mjk 13:08:52 Henk has joined #wot-td 13:09:09 Vignesh has joined #wot-td 13:09:37 https://www.w3.org/policies/patent-policy/20250515/ 13:09:43 ege: (explains the W3C patent policy) 13:10:51 no 13:13:49 Luca is also having issues 13:14:06 https://w3c.zoom.us/j/89964604906?pwd=bDlHMWFpeTJZeitXMDZzYkZaMXk2dz09 13:14:58 can you try the zoom app 13:16:24 Vignesh has joined #wot-td 13:16:55 benfrancis, I'm using the browser. Seems to work., 13:18:27 q+ 13:18:44 s/https://w3c.zoom.us/j/89964604906?pwd=bDlHMWFpeTJZeitXMDZzYkZaMXk2dz09// 13:19:43 I agree to the patent policy 13:20:13 https://www.w3.org/2003/12/22-pp-faq.html#non-participants 13:20:53 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/tree/main/proposals/initial-connection 13:21:08 Its a 404 13:21:11 ege: topic for today is the "Common Definitions" feature of the Thing Description format 13:21:23 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/tree/main/proposals/common-definitions 13:22:09 Topic: Common Definitions feature of TD 13:22:53 ege: (explains user stories for common definitions) 13:25:19 ege: the problem being solved is that in the "form" element of the TD there are repeated verbose statements in each instance of the form 13:25:45 ... The "base" element isn't sufficient for all the use cases 13:25:53 I would say additionalResponses would also fall under same category 13:26:18 ... and the semantics of interactions are not clear 13:26:44 q? 13:26:49 q- 13:26:49 ack dape 13:27:48 I have run into these problems in hiveot. Especially connection management and duplication of forms. 13:27:51 Vignesh: it would be good for example to describe error response only once 13:28:02 ege: agreed and noted 13:28:35 henk: connection management is a big problem as well as security protocol 13:29:04 ... Also a lot of form elements don't add value 13:29:15 ... and the problem of multiple bases 13:30:02 vignesh: An improvement would be really helpful for MQTT 13:31:23 ege: for more use cases, we can add to existing issues, cerate new issues, and update the markdown document as needed 13:32:14 ... Requirements are to be able to reuse the common definition by linking inside the document 13:32:40 ... there needs to be support for a global media type 13:33:00 q+ 13:33:18 ... multiple base URIs 13:33:40 ... initial connection 13:33:59 ... also wrapper schemas for messages 13:35:00 ack dape 13:35:01 dape: preprocessing for the global media type requires expanding the TD 13:35:16 ege: we will specify an algorithm for expansion 13:36:00 ... we want to make sure that the simple cases are easy to describe and not burdened by the new mechanism 13:36:17 subtopic: basic mechanism 13:37:02 henk: how will support for multiple protocols affect the TD? 13:37:11 ege: ther eis a default protocol 13:37:22 s/ther eis/there is 13:37:58 ... There are inline fields and thing-wide defaults 13:38:49 ... there are thing-wide defaults for security, connections, forms, and schemas 13:39:43 ... (explains examples in the tooling folder) 13:40:51 Ege Would it be possible to use URI variables in the default form? 13:42:11 Example: {"href":"/{operation}/{name}"} 13:43:33 henk: the ability to use variables would eliminate the need to have form definitions 13:44:02 operation is specified separately in the form usually right? 13:44:59 ege: we would need to do the mapping between the variable values and elements to substitute in the document 13:45:13 q+ 13:47:04 ack dape 13:47:11 dape: we should be careful with this to identify problems/side effects 13:47:24 q+ 13:47:25 ege: we should open an issue 13:48:11 vignesh: in the last example, how do you point to 2 different forms? 13:48:23 ege: you can use the form name inside the form 13:48:35 ... yo ucan override the default for example 13:48:49 s/yo ucan/you can 13:48:55 vignesh: OK 13:50:16 ege: (explains some of the recursion needed in the expansion algorithm) 13:50:36 ege: you can use connections inside a form 13:51:37 ege: you can override the security inline (example) 13:51:55 ege: (explains some invalid constructs) 13:53:41 q+ 13:54:23 ack v 13:54:25 ege: This may be over-engineered 13:55:06 henk: what about authorization and roles for individual affordances? 13:55:25 egekorkan has joined #wot-td 13:55:51 ege: it's possible today by using multiple security definitions and including them inline in the affordance 13:56:07 q+ 13:56:40 henk: it probably doesn't work for connection oriented protocols 13:56:51 ege: we should open an issue on this 13:57:12 ... we might need to use a feature of the protocol 13:57:49 ... this can be resolved in parallel with the new feature 13:58:08 vignesh: does nosec need to be specified? 13:58:29 ege: yes, the TD is invalid without it 13:58:52 ... the security review result wa we should not allow nosec as the default 13:59:04 s/wa /was / 14:00:07 vignesh: what is we have one security scheme but multiple roles? 14:00:27 henk: yes, this is my point too 14:02:04 ege: it's not clear what we need to add, we should describe it in the issue 14:02:32 ... We are out of time now and can continue the discussion later 14:02:42 great! I can have a look once more and get back 14:02:51 ... Please let us know what additional feedback you have 14:03:02 Thank you! 14:03:13 ege: maybe we can reconvene in 2 weeks 14:03:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:03:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-wot-td-minutes.html egekorkan 14:03:30 Topic: AOB 14:03:30 ege: AOB? 14:03:43 ... none, adjourned 14:03:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:04:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-wot-td-minutes.html mjk 14:04:46 Ege has joined #wot-td 15:58:18 Zakim has left #wot-td 17:04:14 Ege has joined #wot-td 17:30:00 Ege has joined #wot-td 18:46:54 Ege has joined #wot-td 20:05:07 Ege has joined #wot-td 22:14:33 Ege has joined #wot-td 22:47:09 Ege has joined #wot-td 23:15:17 Ege has joined #wot-td