14:50:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pmwg-a11y
14:50:05 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-pmwg-a11y-irc
14:50:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pmwg-a11y
14:50:23 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pmwg-a11y
14:50:23 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:50:36 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:50:43 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
14:51:28 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Review of editorial refactoring of EPUB Accessibility 1.2 and techniques document.
14:52:00 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
15:01:05 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:01:24 <CharlesL> present+
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15:01:24 <George> George has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:01:25 <Hadrien> present+
15:01:45 <gautierchomel> present+
15:01:46 <George> present+
15:02:00 <gautierchomel> scribe+
15:02:17 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:02:17 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Review of editorial refactoring of EPUB Accessibility 1.2 and techniques document. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:02:20 <gpellegrino> present+
15:02:52 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:02:59 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: We collect comments and have some specific questions.
15:03:08 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:03:15 <mgarrish> present+
15:03:37 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/blob/6eef7b970099dd3eeb30d44a9331e25c4e800ee6/epub34/a11y/index.html
15:06:07 <George> q+
15:06:43 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: where should we keep the references to Optimized publications?
15:06:57 <gpellegrino> q+
15:07:07 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:07:41 <CharlesL> q+
15:08:07 <gautierchomel> George: I would be in favor of an Appendix.
15:10:18 <gautierchomel> George: there's confusion about audiobook, we want accessibility metadata about audiobooks in the trade. It is good to make sure there is no confusion with optimized daisy formats.
15:10:24 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:11:10 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:11:11 <George> q+
15:11:17 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: The title of the document is EPUB accessibility, this section is about other formats. We should not change the document name and push them (and the audiobook references) to an annex.
15:11:58 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: I would expect Optimized to be an EPUB Optimized, with Braille ready inside.
15:12:32 <gautierchomel> q+
15:12:46 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:13:42 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:13:52 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: Braille rendition of EPUB is an important subject we are discussing at DAISY.
15:14:39 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:15:23 <gautierchomel> George: A multiple rendition is an EPUB that can easily become an audiobook.
15:16:46 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: This section is for education purpose. EPUB is great but cannot fit all needs. Could we keep a section to inform this concept.
15:16:48 <gautierchomel> q+
15:18:28 <CharlesL> +1 to a dual approach
15:18:55 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: I understand, then maybe not as a big section.
15:19:50 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel: maybe then we want to inform about limitations of EPUB for accessibility.
15:20:15 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: yes, accessible universal does not fits every needs.
15:20:33 <gautierchomel> s/multiple rendition/media overlay/
15:21:12 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: Second question is about the Guide to Optimized Publication Standards for a non-normative list of standards.
15:21:20 <gautierchomel> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/docs/optimized-pubs/
15:21:46 <CharlesL> q+
15:21:51 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: do we want to have tihs guidance here or at daisy?
15:21:56 <gautierchomel> q-
15:22:47 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: it's legacy from the IDPF.
15:22:54 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:23:05 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: It probably makes more sense to have it on daisy side
15:23:15 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: it is where it belongs.
15:23:21 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
15:23:26 <George> q+
15:24:30 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:25:28 <gautierchomel> George: we have the legacy specifications at daisy and the ebraille incoming. All of those are Daisy Standards.
15:26:40 <CharlesL> q+
15:26:51 <gautierchomel> George: NIMAS will be revisited also, it's derived from Daisy. It is good to have a register of all optimized formats.
15:27:40 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:28:41 <CharlesL> q+
15:28:55 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: Next question, in dc conform to you could use the value none. Shall we example that and be clear it is usable?
15:29:07 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:30:00 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: unknone and none are usefull, but then you must say who evaluated.
15:30:20 <gautierchomel> s/unknone/unknown/
15:30:26 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:31:33 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: probably the accesisbility summary is more important when the publication is not accessible, to explain why.
15:31:47 <gautierchomel> s/accesisbility/accessibility/
15:31:57 <CharlesL> q+
15:33:04 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: conformsTo is a string you can put what ever you want.
15:33:11 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
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15:34:05 <CharlesL> q+
15:34:40 <George> q+
15:34:48 <Dale> present+
15:35:14 <Dale> q+
15:37:11 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: the guidance already mention xyz conformance. We only miss information about what to do if we use none or unknown.
15:38:14 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:38:17 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:38:36 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: That's an interesting discussion for the community group, I'll put it on next week agenda to have feedbacks .
15:38:58 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:40:23 <CharlesL> q+
15:40:33 <gpellegrino> q+
15:43:28 <AvneeshSingh> ack charles
15:44:27 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: I have seen conformsTo with "ACE version xx"
15:44:38 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:44:39 <mgarrish> q+
15:45:53 <George> q+
15:46:19 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:46:22 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: the important information is in metadata. Conformance is black or white, it helps secure production.
15:47:25 <CharlesL> q+
15:48:10 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: we cannot really just display what is in ConfromsTo, we use a control vocabulary to trigger displays. So the question is what should we do with none and unknown.
15:48:34 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:49:07 <CharlesL> q-
15:49:20 <gautierchomel> George: conformance require human intelligence, no magic bullet exist.
15:49:38 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:52:28 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:52:28 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Any other business. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
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15:55:09 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
15:55:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-pmwg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
15:55:19 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
15:56:16 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
15:56:16 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, CharlesL, Hadrien, gautierchomel, George, gpellegrino, mgarrish, Dale
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