13:10:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-profile
13:10:29 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-irc
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13:10:46 <benfrancis> chair: benfrancis
13:10:53 <benfrancis> meeting: WoT Profiles
13:10:58 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:10:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
13:11:03 <benfrancis> rrsagent, make log public
13:11:25 <benfrancis> Present+ Ege
13:11:43 <benfrancis> Present+ David_Ezell
13:11:56 <benfrancis> Present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:12:00 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:12:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
13:12:20 <benfrancis> Present+ benfrancis
13:12:59 <Ege> scribenick: Ege
13:13:16 <Ege> topic: Minutes Review
13:13:43 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/2025/09/17-wot-profile-minutes.html
13:13:48 <Ege> bf: any feedback?
13:13:53 <Ege> bf: hearing none, approved
13:14:00 <Ege> topic: Publication
13:14:52 <Ege> bf: it is annoying that we had to change the editors
13:15:07 <Ege> ... as those who are more recently active cannot be listed
13:15:32 <Ege> ... is it fine?
13:15:49 <Ege> tm: maybe McCool's w3c id should be changed
13:15:53 <Ege> ... since he is not Intel
13:16:52 <benfrancis> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/wot/participants/
13:17:10 <Ege> bf: did he change an account?
13:17:18 <Ege> bf: he is not wg member anymore
13:18:22 <Ege> tm: so the PR is fin
13:18:27 <Ege> s/fin/fine
13:18:49 <Ege> ... we should check his id after he joins back as IE
13:19:01 <Ege> bf: yes. I will check
13:19:07 <Ege> ... any other remarks
13:20:46 <Ege> ... I will contact him directly
13:23:32 <benfrancis> scribenik: benfrancis
13:24:03 <benfrancis> Ege: I had one comment on HTTP-specific part. If you have the requirement to use HTTP, take this document and you will be fine. Currently can't do that because separate profiles for eventing.
13:24:31 <benfrancis> Ege: Ideologically would prefer all operations can be done in one profile, so don't get different profiles
13:24:50 <benfrancis> Ege: We talk about web and HTTP a lot, but when you go to Profiles implementers need to make decisions
13:25:31 <benfrancis> benfrancis: Evening/asynchronous stuff is most important decision that is left to implementers. Would like to see SSE put into HTTP Basic, because Webhook needs completely different infrastructure.
13:25:41 <benfrancis> Ege: Eventing/asynchronous stuff is most important decision that is left to implementers. Would like to see SSE put into HTTP Basic, because Webhook needs completely different infrastructure.
13:25:51 <benfrancis> benfrancis: Strongly agree
13:26:11 <Ege> bf: we ended up splitting it
13:26:38 <Ege> ... it would be also possible to integrate longpolling but I am not sure if people want that
13:26:56 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:26:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
13:27:45 <Ege> s/scribenik/scribenick
13:27:51 <Ege> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:27:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html Ege
13:28:07 <Mizushima> q+
13:28:24 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-profile
13:28:42 <benfrancis> scribenick: Ege
13:29:21 <Ege> tm: profile is not a subset of TD. So we should clarify difference between TD and profile and protocol bindings
13:30:04 <Ege> bf: I agree
13:30:08 <Ege> ... we should do that
13:30:43 <Ege> ... we should define something more structured
13:32:20 <Ege> ... defining how extension points are constrained
13:32:32 <Ege> ek: I would say any flexibility can be constrained
13:32:37 <Ege> bf: example?
13:32:52 <Ege> ek: maximum 100 properties. max 5 characters for property names
13:33:15 <Ege> ... something in the direction was tried but it is impossible to agree on this in a general way
13:38:18 <Ege> subtopic: Constraining Dimensions
13:38:58 <Ege> ek: there are many aspects to constrain.
13:39:06 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/450
13:41:47 <Ege> ... that issue has some examples I mentioned
13:42:21 <Ege> bf: in webthings, we have capability schemas
13:42:34 <Ege> ... this was inspired by schema.org
13:42:46 <mjk> q+
13:43:18 <mjk> ack mjk
13:43:27 <Ege> ... I like that approach. profile guarantees technical interop
13:43:32 <Ege> ack m
13:44:08 <Ege> ... this adds a layer on top
13:45:28 <benfrancis> q?
13:45:36 <Ege> ... however that creates silos again
13:45:40 <benfrancis> Present+ mkoster
13:45:49 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:45:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
13:48:36 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot-profile
13:48:46 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
13:49:20 <Ege> ek: maybe thinking of Consumer roles would help
13:50:39 <benfrancis> q?
13:51:21 <benfrancis> q?
13:52:00 <benfrancis> scribenick: benfrancis
13:52:23 <benfrancis> Ege: If I come to someone making a device like Conexxus, they want guidance while they are implemetnign it and want to ensure device is usable by the most amount of people
13:52:37 <benfrancis> Ege: Need guidance + guarantees what they are doing will be useable by most amount of people
13:53:48 <benfrancis> Ege: Would be helpful if we could say to them this is the smart safe profile, here's how you do it. E.g. what Matter does - this is a light, this is how you do it. What device manufacturers want to hear. Would like to get input from those types of people. Currently specifications are killing anyone who wants to get started with the Web of Things
13:53:48 <benfrancis> unless they are already comfortable.
13:53:56 <benfrancis> scribenick: Ege
13:54:23 <mjk> q+
13:54:45 <Ege> bf: matter commodizes devices and reduces differentation
13:55:23 <Ege> ... so we can keep profiles open like now so that implementations can be varied and can differentiate
13:56:11 <benfrancis> q?
13:56:19 <Ege> ... and that is a lot of work
13:56:40 <Ege> mjk: we tried iot.schema.org but the community did not want it
13:57:34 <Ege> ... some did not want constraints
13:57:50 <Ege> ... I asked why do you want to innovate on a light switch
13:58:30 <Ege> ... we couldn't attract the domain experts to contribute models
13:59:13 <Ege> ... matter-using companies want to differentiate in the cloud etc.
14:00:28 <Ege> ... maybe finding a middle ground like Ben said makes a lot of sense
14:00:43 <Ege> ... from the user side, it is better to have something easy to implement
14:02:06 <Ege> bf: what is the best way to do that
14:02:44 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
14:03:32 <benfrancis> scribenick: benfrancis
14:03:51 <benfrancis> benfrancis: Thing Models seem to constraining, but semantic annotations maybe aren't the right way either.
14:04:21 <benfrancis> benfrancis: (regardless of whether it is part of Profiles or not)
14:04:44 <benfrancis> mkoster: The community seem to be converging on SHACL style shape constraints.
14:05:14 <benfrancis> ajourned.
14:05:41 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:05:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
14:17:23 <benfrancis> i/I had one comment/Topic: Profiles 2.0 Planning
14:17:30 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:17:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
14:18:44 <benfrancis> s/he is not wg member anymore/Matsukura-san is not wg member anymore
14:18:48 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:18:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
14:20:03 <benfrancis> s/Topic: Publication/Topic: Profiles 1.0 Publication
14:20:05 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
14:20:51 <benfrancis> s/topic: Publication/topic: Profiles 1.0 Publication
14:20:53 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
14:22:56 <benfrancis> s/and that is a lot of work/Creating domain-specific capability schemas is a lot of work
14:29:44 <benfrancis> i/it is annoying that we had to change the editors/subtopic: PR #451
14:29:47 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
14:32:26 <benfrancis> s/I will contact him directly/I will contact Philippe directly
14:32:28 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:32:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
14:33:12 <benfrancis> s/benfrancis: Evening/asynchronous stuff is most important decision that is left to implementers. Would like to see SSE put into HTTP Basic, because Webhook needs completely different infrastructure./
14:33:13 <benfrancis> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:33:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/01-wot-profile-minutes.html benfrancis
15:11:24 <benfrancis> rrsagent, bye
15:11:24 <RRSAgent> I see no action items