13:37:57 RRSAgent has joined #lws 13:38:01 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/29-lws-irc 13:38:05 Zakim has joined #lws 13:39:01 acoburn has changed the topic to: Linked Web Storage - Meeting 29 Sept 2025 https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250929T100000/ 13:43:19 danbri has joined #lws 13:50:41 zakim, start meeting 13:50:41 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:50:43 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn 13:50:47 meeting: Linked Web Storage 13:50:53 chair: acoburn 13:51:15 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250929T100000/#agenda 13:51:15 clear agenda 13:51:15 agenda+ Introductions & Announcements 13:51:15 agenda+ Action items 13:51:15 agenda+ Review prioritization of use cases 13:51:15 agenda+ Face-to-face meeting agenda 13:51:19 rrsagent, make minutes 13:51:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/29-lws-minutes.html acoburn 13:57:33 TallTed has joined #lws 13:58:31 danbri has joined #lws 14:00:46 RazaN has joined #lws 14:00:46 regrets+ 14:00:55 present+ 14:01:34 present+ 14:01:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/29-lws-minutes.html TallTed 14:02:43 ryey has joined #lws 14:03:23 gibsonf1 has joined #lws 14:03:28 present+ 14:05:10 scribenick: ryey 14:05:22 present+ 14:05:27 zakim, open agendum 1 14:05:27 agendum 1 -- Introductions & Announcements -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:06:43 acoburn: Laurens may have updates for F2F meeting later. 14:07:02 zakim, open agendum 2 14:07:02 agendum 2 -- Action items -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:07:43 acoburn: One for Hadren's.. We can skip for now. The other one is for storage providers. We'll reserve for later. 14:07:56 zakim, open agendum 3 14:07:56 agendum 3 -- Review prioritization of use cases -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:08:23 acoburn: This one and next is the core for our discussion today. 14:09:00 ... We had discussions in the last few days. We had polls and strawpolls. They were not binding, but give us information on what people feel about them, for their priority and focus. 14:09:16 s/in the last few days/in the last few weeks/ 14:09:29 jeswr has joined #lws 14:09:31 ... I put them into a spreadsheet 14:09:35 present+ 14:09:41 present+ 14:10:18 acoburn: I added them up as total, for +1, 0, and -1; included the number of votes; also normalized 14:11:39 ... This gives us clear idea what people feel are more important. It's not binding, but informs us -- for those strong negative, unless we have a strong reason, we'd better not work on them 14:12:21 ... What's interesting is they drop slows initially; but after a point, they drop a lot; then too 20-30% range a cluster. 14:12:38 ... I suspect the things above 70% is the parts we'll focus 14:13:00 ... For lower ones, some may actually fit into the higher ones. E.g. some about access control 14:13:42 ... We'll agree on what we focus on in the next year, for our Charter's agreed date 14:14:08 s/What's interesting is they drop slows initially/What's interesting is they drop slowly initially/ 14:14:40 q+ 14:14:43 ... One thing I'm curious from the group: are there any down there seem surprising? Maybe not just for "reconsidering", but anything surprising, either higher or lower 14:14:47 ack next 14:15:55 gibscof1: The Inbox 14:16:10 s/gibscof1:/gibsconf1:/ 14:16:36 acoburn: I suspect for notification, we need a place for receiving them 14:17:12 ... Inbox itself may not be (important) enough as requirement itself. But it may need to be pulled in as a part of notifications. 14:17:52 danbri: .xxxxxxx? 14:18:08 acoburn: We focus on high-level for now. We'll go to mechanism later. 14:19:11 bendm has joined #lws 14:19:13 s/.xxxxxxx?/is it about message queues, as a part of the notifications?/ 14:19:44 q+ 14:19:50 ack next 14:19:58 scribe+ 14:20:40 ryey: two questions: the consent based data sharing number seems surprising. Would expect it to be lower than transfer of control 14:20:48 ... consent is a complex topic 14:20:59 ... also e2e encryption 14:21:15 ... this gets a 0 so likely won't be focused on 14:21:27 ... this seems like an application level item rather than protocol level 14:21:42 scribe- 14:22:29 acoburn: For E2EE, there is a split between the votes, quite different from many other ones 14:22:55 ... We have same number of "for" and same number of "against" 14:23:37 ... while for many others, we actually get many votes on "as extension" or alike, for those in similar situations 14:23:52 ... I suspect it will be in application level eventually. 14:24:51 zakim, open agendum 4 14:24:51 agendum 4 -- Face-to-face meeting agenda -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:25:25 ... I'm showing a draft of the topics for the F2F meeting 14:25:27 present+ 14:25:55 ... We have three days (but roughly two+ days), Wednesday - Friday 14:26:07 ... For key items, I hope we can put to Wednesday 14:26:20 s/I hope we can put to Wednesday/I hope we can put to Thursday/ 14:26:20 q+ to ask about zoom in to f2f if can't make it in person 14:27:19 ... I'm trying to build on what we have on the straw poll results, for the focus in the F2F meeting 14:28:01 q+ to ask about notification vs resource changes 14:28:22 ack next 14:28:23 gibsonf, you wanted to ask about zoom in to f2f if can't make it in person 14:28:27 ... coming up with topics for the items in the polls 14:28:54 gibsonf1: For those online, will there be zoom for participation? And for Friday afternoon ...? 14:29:31 acoburn: Yes and yes. Laurens mentioned there will be audio. For those in US, maybe put querying in the afternoon? 14:29:39 ack next 14:29:40 bendm, you wanted to ask about notification vs resource changes 14:30:33 bendm: You said subscribe to changes, and notification are very related. I have a feeling it's not really? E.g. notification is for linked data notifications, and changes is for applications, or data related...? 14:31:14 acoburn: there are some points. there are prior arts in ActivityPub, and Linked Data Notifications. All need to be considered. We need to make sure we'll get consensus. 14:31:31 ... Answer is: they are related, but they may not all be brought into scope. It's something we'll discuss. 14:32:14 q+ to ask about extensibility design choices 14:32:23 ack next 14:32:24 bendm, you wanted to ask about extensibility design choices 14:32:29 ... One thing not listed in the requirements is test suite. We can't have too much time for it, but we should discuss 14:33:12 bendm: I remember we spent some time to talk about some functionality being extensible. E.g., for authentication, you'll have multiple ways. But we haven't really discussed how far we want to go for discussing that, especially in F2F 14:34:29 acoburn: Discovery also has Data Discovery, which also fits to other parts. I suspect you are describing Capability Discovery, that we don't put each implementation on its own part 14:35:07 bendm: I'm fine for that. I have feeling that for some parts we'll fix more than making it extensible. But we'll go through the days and see where we end up 14:35:33 acoburn: also, for authentication, we can spend significant time for it. We'd better timebox each topic. 14:36:11 ... we'd better discuss each of them. Though, I'll not going to boil the ocean 14:36:21 q+ 14:36:28 ack next 14:36:31 scribe+ 14:37:36 ryey: would like to bring up pattern of interactions: authZ, authN, query, etc 14:38:02 ... various interaction models (agent-to-agent, user's own storage, etc) 14:38:52 ... would like to ground conversations in specific use cases 14:41:30 acoburn: I'm adding delegation (into interaction models), which we may not get to, but useful if we can. 14:42:00 ... One other item: next week, many of us will meet in person. So should we still have our regular LWS WG meeting on Monday? 14:42:37 jeswr: Let's not force an agenda if we don't have something 14:42:40 ericP has joined #lws 14:42:44 +1 to skip 14:42:44 ericP: Second 14:42:51 present+ 14:43:30 gibsonf1: Are there anything you see probably fit into afternoon rather than morning? 14:43:49 s/gibsonf1: Are there anything/acoburn: gibsonf1, Are there anything/ 14:44:29 gibsonf1: I'll communicate after the meeting 14:45:14 acoburn: I've shared the link (zoom chat). Everyone feel free to comment on it. 14:45:32 -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/101V6FRksNL-mN4xqejTc3ct9Id7Tv7gMw-VL0Sy7Gck/edit?usp=sharing draft agenda for comment 14:45:47 ... copied to here as well 14:45:56 ... anything else for today? 14:46:03 q+ 14:46:10 ack next 14:46:14 scribe+ 14:46:29 ryey: pending PR for requirements 14:49:38 acoburn: commentary on the PRs seem to indicate that these are closer to user stories than requirements 14:51:38 ryey: Authorization Capability -- the requirement focuses on allowing other serivces to interact with that authz mechanism 14:52:18 ... User-controlled extensions: this would allow data owners/users to add features to a storage 14:53:26 ... Custom information for Clients - mechanism for users to configure custom metadata associated with a resource 14:54:00 ... Anonymous Identity Recognition -- pseudoanonimity features 14:54:38 ... Data Authenticity Verification: not transmission tampering but rather tampering on disk 14:55:13 ... Data Browsing: mechanism to browse/query the contents of the Storage 14:56:15 ... Alternative Data Layouts: standard way to change presentation of data structure 14:56:33 ericP: would forward compatibility be required? 14:56:57 ryey: this is more like views in a database 14:57:20 ... a server would be responsible for keeping connection between views and original mappings 14:57:55 ... Cross-Client Automatic / Simple Login -- the protocol shouldn't make it too difficult for users to login 14:59:42 ... Custom Rendering: related to views feature and rendering a website. Not specific to rendering HTML but more focused on generic transformation. This way one could share the URL and also a hint for rendering the resource 15:00:57 ericP: for commentary, please add whether (a) it is important to you and/or (b) it should be listed in the LWS requirements 15:02:39 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:02:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/29-lws-minutes.html acoburn 15:32:10 acoburn has left #lws 16:44:21 TallTed has joined #lws