13:50:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:51:02 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-i18n-irc
13:51:07 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/3d8e05fe-09ac-4406-91ee-50e6ad47529d/20250925T150000/
13:51:07 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:51:07 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:51:07 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:51:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:51:11 <agendabot> agenda+ Review RADAR Review
13:51:13 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
13:51:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Number, currency and unit formatting article
13:51:18 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:51:43 <addison> agenda+ numeric character input
13:59:22 <addison> present+
13:59:38 <jsahleen> jsahleen has joined #i18n
14:00:00 <addison> present+ Jeol
14:00:11 <addison> s/Jeol/Jeol/
14:00:31 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
14:00:31 <addison> s/Jeol/Joel/
14:01:05 <atsushi> atsushi has joined #i18n
14:01:11 <addison> present+ Bert, Atsushi
14:01:59 <addison> present+ Eemeli, JcK
14:02:09 <atsushi> scribe+
14:02:29 <addison> present+ Richard, Fuqiao
14:02:45 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:02:45 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:02:52 <addison> agenda?
14:03:39 <atsushi> addison: added some agenda, anything else?
14:04:07 <addison> agenda+ localization proposals discussion
14:04:17 <atsushi> eemeli: want to add a localization proposal discussion
14:04:37 <atsushi> xfq: would add review comments
14:04:39 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:04:39 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:47 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues
14:04:55 <addison> #184
14:04:56 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/184 -> Action 184  reply to wcag issue with comment about doing a higher level of interaction and pre-review (on aphillips) due 2025-09-04
14:04:58 <xfq> agenda+ Use zxx in place of an empty daptm:langSrc
14:05:14 <addison> #135
14:05:14 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135 -> Action 135  follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17
14:05:17 <addison> #127
14:05:18 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127 -> Action 127  make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30
14:05:20 <addison> #33
14:05:20 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)
14:05:26 <addison> #7
14:05:27 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023
14:05:34 <addison> #4
14:05:35 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023
14:05:46 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:05:46 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:06:18 <atsushi> joel: one question-ish, spec review
14:06:29 <atsushi> ... one comment on error interface. geolocation provide code and message, message only on English
14:06:39 <atsushi> ... anything we need to flag on these?
14:07:14 <atsushi> addison: what we did and recommended is file an issue to our i18n-activity repository before filing to them, and see comment internally first
14:07:38 <atsushi> ... file comment on procedure things to request issue
14:08:08 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:08:08 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:08:15 <addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1
14:08:28 <atsushi> addison: new incoming from ECMA
14:10:00 <atsushi> eemeli: one reason I am here is to say this one is the first review request to i18n WG
14:10:26 <atsushi> ... this one should be short
14:10:42 <atsushi> ... is there anything we should coordinate for automation or else?
14:11:04 <atsushi> ... like global labels or something else
14:11:41 <r12a> q+
14:12:02 <addison> ack r12a
14:12:13 <atsushi> addison: our automation is per repo, but we also have automation on our request tracking
14:12:26 <atsushi> r12a: for WHATWG they have labels
14:12:42 <eemeli> q+
14:12:43 <gb> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4562 -> Issue 4562 Validating internationalized mail addresses in <input type="email"> (by jrlevine) [addition/proposal] [needs implementer interest] [topic: forms] [i18n-tracker]
14:13:04 <xfq> https://github.com/whatwg/html/labels?q=i18n
14:13:04 <addison> ack next
14:13:07 <atsushi> ... automation for trackers etc. are interesting question
14:13:51 <atsushi> eemeli: any one request will have one repository on our side, adding automation to single would not work
14:14:28 <atsushi> addison: we may provide multiple issues from review, automation with labels could be close interaction between two groups
14:14:49 <atsushi> ... you could ask question without having issue, but just with adding label to issues in your repository
14:15:14 <atsushi> ... one of agenda+ for today, you could notice that is coming from external repository
14:15:44 <atsushi> ... having one repository per proposal could have fliction on automation, but we could discuss
14:16:31 <atsushi> eemeli: if it possible to setup tooling from your side?
14:16:38 <addison> action: addison: follow up with PLH on automating TC39 repos
14:16:40 <gb> Created -> action #185 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/185
14:17:05 <atsushi> addison: who should be contact at your side?
14:17:25 <xfq> it's currently per-repo for non-w3c repos: https://github.com/w3c/github-notify-ml-config/blob/4801ee8ad26915b92dea5e965d1c7dc4d4f2edbc/mls.json#L815
14:18:56 <atsushi> [interaction in technically]
14:20:21 <addison> agenda?
14:20:31 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:20:31 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:20:38 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending
14:21:14 <addison> #2034
14:21:14 <gb> Issue 2034 not found
14:21:20 <addison> i18n-activity#2034
14:21:21 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2034 -> Issue 2034 Should `message` be localizable? (by aphillips) [pending] [s:geolocation]
14:21:28 <atsushi> addison: #2034, one joel said, will discuss later
14:21:38 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/geolocation/#message-attribute
14:21:45 <atsushi> joel: do we have any policy over?
14:21:57 <atsushi> addison: basically we recommend to have lang and dir
14:22:01 <xfq> https://w3c.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#errors
14:22:35 <atsushi> ... there is note on suggestion in best practices
14:23:00 <atsushi> s/joel: /jsahleen: /g
14:23:23 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/941
14:23:24 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/941 -> CLOSED Issue 941 suggest alternative text for description of GeolocationPositionError.message attribute (by himorin) [needs-resolution] [agreed-to-close-during-mtg] [s:geolocation] [t:loc_localization] [wg:das]
14:24:03 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/geolocation/issues/50
14:24:03 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/geolocation/issues/50 -> CLOSED Issue 50 Change text for description of GeolocationPositionError.message attribute (by himorin) [i18n-needs-resolution]
14:24:22 <atsushi> jsahleen: close new one per current Note: was from our suggestion?
14:25:05 <atsushi> addison: in the end of issue #50, there is a comment about moving discussion into WebIDL
14:25:05 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/50 -> CLOSED Action 50 raise TAG request about reviewing string definitions (on aphillips) due 2023-10-12
14:25:41 <atsushi> addison: do we want to say it was fine at last moment? any suggestion?
14:25:42 <addison> agenda?
14:27:05 <atsushi> r12a: did we close with agreement?
14:27:14 <atsushi> addison: it seems we closed our tracker also.
14:27:55 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
14:27:55 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- numeric character input -- taken up [from addison]
14:28:04 <addison> i18n-activity#2032
14:28:05 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2032 -> Issue 2032 Define normalization of full-width numeric characters in <input type=number> user input (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [spec-type-issue] [jlreq] [clreq] [i:interaction] [t:loc_numbers] [whatwg] [Agenda+]
14:28:17 <addison> whatwg/html#11616
14:28:18 <gb> https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/11616 -> Pull Request 11616 Define normalization of full-width numeric characters in <input type=number> user input (by kyouhei-horizumi) [normative change] [topic: forms] [i18n-tracker] [i18n-jlreq] [i18n-clreq]
14:28:51 <atsushi> addison: sometimes ago, we discussed about this point
14:29:04 <atsushi> ... browser normalize and process as numeric
14:29:26 <atsushi> ... Richard commented about digits from different writing system
14:29:38 <atsushi> ... and comma with dot, minus sign etc.
14:30:07 <atsushi> ... desire NFKC-ed input there
14:30:24 <atsushi> ... in specific on comma/dot
14:30:46 <atsushi> ... do we need to have custom list, or add nomalization layer
14:31:23 <atsushi> ... rether than relying on cldr, html layer should have something?
14:31:34 <atsushi> addison: cldr have list of characters to be used
14:32:59 <atsushi> addison: will only work from point of view on language, but full width comma will stop parsing
14:33:07 <addison> １２３４．５６
14:33:09 <jsahleen> ，
14:33:40 <addison> ー１，２３４．５６
14:35:17 <atsushi> xfq: does EA property has some attribute associated to character?
14:35:35 <atsushi> addison: cldr has bunch of data about separators
14:36:08 <xfq> s/EA property has some attribute associated to character?/EAW is a character property, there is no mapping
14:36:30 <r12a> Urdu also has special characters for the thousands and decimal separators: ٬U+066C THOUSANDS SEPARATOR and ٫U+066B DECIMAL SEPARATOR (see Figure 6), although the ASCII full stop and comma may also be used.
14:36:43 <atsushi> r12a: other language could have different characters
14:36:52 <atsushi> addison: might be in cldr also
14:36:52 <r12a> https://r12a.github.io/scripts/arab/ur.html#numbers
14:37:07 <atsushi> r12a: not managable from normalization
14:37:57 <jsahleen> From cldr-json for ja: https://github.com/unicode-org/cldr-json/blob/c883679ed17a36da8a3ebcc6b3f4994a9277f132/cldr-json/cldr-numbers-full/main/ja/numbers.json#L16
14:38:32 <addison> https://unicode.org/cldr/charts/48/by_type/numbers.symbols.html
14:38:33 <atsushi> jsahleen: looking into cldr data, there is some definitions
14:39:54 <atsushi> addison: there are several example characters
14:40:45 <atsushi> jsahleen: I could file issue or something, meeting are Wed
14:41:11 <r12a> https://github.com/unicode-org/cldr-json/blob/c883679ed17a36da8a3ebcc6b3f4994a9277f132/cldr-json/cldr-numbers-full/main/ar/numbers.json#L16
14:41:36 <addison> action: jsahleen: file issue with CLDR and report progress related to east asian widths in html#11616
14:41:37 <gb> Created -> action #186 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/186
14:42:20 <atsushi> addison: full width is one of specific item
14:42:38 <addison> agenda?
14:42:54 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
14:42:54 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- Use zxx in place of an empty daptm:langSrc -- taken up [from xfq]
14:43:03 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/322
14:43:03 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/322 -> Pull Request 322 Use `zxx` in place of an empty `daptm:langSrc` (by nigelmegitt) [agenda]
14:43:10 <xfq> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/dapt/pull/322.html#text-language-source
14:43:31 <atsushi> xfq: discussed last week
14:43:44 <addison> q+
14:43:44 <atsushi> ... filed two issue
14:44:11 <atsushi> ... one is validation and another is using zxx
14:45:18 <addison> ack next
14:45:33 <eemeli> q+
14:45:38 <atsushi> addison: zxx represents to non linguistic content
14:45:52 <atsushi> ... it's inconvinient for some text
14:46:38 <atsushi> ... if you know content is not linguistic, use zxx
14:46:48 <atsushi> xfq: use empty if they don't know
14:47:01 <atsushi> addison: keeping empty means lack of information
14:47:11 <atsushi> r12a: empty also means not provided
14:47:25 <addison> ack next
14:47:36 <eemeli> https://github.com/tc39/proposal-stable-formatting
14:48:05 <atsushi> eemeli: not specific on this, but using zxx we have another proposal in TC39, challange that JS input library provide capability of localization
14:48:21 <atsushi> ... and what should take when library does not provide
14:48:45 <atsushi> ... use zxx for getting expecting predicted behavior by tooling
14:48:59 <atsushi> ... use predicted value rather than specified
14:50:00 <atsushi> eemeli: context of zxx here might be any specific meaning here
14:50:36 <atsushi> addison: classically, locale is used for specifying behavior
14:50:50 <atsushi> ... intl has large relationship with locale
14:55:01 <atsushi> addison: image could have zxx for non linguistinc, also could copy one from surrounding text
14:55:08 <addison> agenda?
14:55:23 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:55:23 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- localization proposals discussion -- taken up [from addison]
14:55:41 <atsushi> eemeli: would like to make html better for i18n and l10n
14:56:02 <atsushi> ... find this challanging on meta data level, don't know a good place to host this kind of discussion
14:56:29 <atsushi> ... if can some group around W3C host these discussion, or some group could, I would want to hear
14:58:49 <atsushi> addison: you could open issue with i18n and whatwg related issue
15:00:05 <atsushi> addison: we already have several interaction issues in tracker
15:00:19 <eemeli> https://github.com/mozilla/explainers/blob/main/amount.md
15:03:34 <addison> i18n-activity#1645
15:03:34 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1645 -> Issue 1645 <input type="time"> : Time vs. duration (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:html] [t:loc_time] [Agenda+I18N+WHATWG] [whatwg]
15:03:41 <addison> whatwg/html#5488
15:03:41 <gb> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/5488 -> Issue 5488 <input type="time"> : Time vs. duration (by d-damien) [addition/proposal] [needs implementer interest] [topic: forms] [i18n-tracker]
15:03:45 <atsushi> [discussion about meta and overall discussion, where and how]
15:04:50 <xfq> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2404
15:04:50 <gb> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2404 -> Issue 2404 A tag to display date and/or time to the user in his preferred format. (by lostmsu) [addition/proposal] [needs implementer interest] [i18n-tracker]
15:05:20 <atsushi> eemeli: will consider and back to group shortly, and might have some breakout session during upcoming TPAC
15:05:43 <atsushi> addison: could be a joint meetings with other groups whose participants could be interested
15:06:38 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:06:42 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
15:06:42 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:07:35 <xfq> rrsagent, make log public
15:07:37 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:07:46 <atsushi> r12a: does anyone download new Mac OS?
15:07:48 <atsushi> ... and try new feature?
15:08:26 <xfq> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
15:08:34 <xfq> chair: addison
15:08:44 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:08:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-i18n-minutes.html xfq