14:05:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:05:53 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-irc
14:06:00 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
14:06:08 <kaz> chair: Koster
14:06:14 <dape> scribe: dape
14:06:47 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:07:01 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:07:26 <dape> TOPIC: Minutes review
14:07:37 <dape> -> Nov 11 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/09/11-wot-td-minutes.html
14:07:58 <dape> s/Nov 11/Sep 11
14:08:28 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:08:31 <dape> MK: Updates/additions?
14:08:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:08:41 <mjk> q?
14:08:41 <dape> ... none -> minutes are approved
14:08:55 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#September_24-25%2C_2025
14:09:21 <dape> TOPIC: Publications
14:09:31 <dape> EK: Prepared PR for static documents
14:09:44 <dape> ... I will revert some changes
14:10:08 <dape> ... adding note that some parts will be changed in future
14:10:16 <dape> ... other documents are all fine
14:10:23 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:10:24 <dape> ... binding templates, binding registry
14:10:33 <kaz> i|Prepared|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2140 TD PR 2140 - TD 2.0 FPWD Publication|
14:10:39 <dape> ... FYI, no validation errors either
14:10:42 <dape> ... all good
14:10:47 <dape> MK: Sounds good
14:11:50 <kaz> i|other documents|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/442 Binding PR 442 - New Note Publication|
14:12:16 <dape> TOPIC: Inviting WoT CG Participants for Feedback on the Initial Connection:
14:12:30 <dape> EK: will invite them for October 2nd
14:12:45 <dape> TOPIC: TD SpecWork
14:12:53 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Manageable Affordances
14:13:03 <kaz> i|other docu|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-registry/pull/38 Registry PR 38 - Draft Registry Publication|
14:13:05 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:13:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:13:30 <dape> EK: Cristiano prepared PR, see https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2107
14:13:35 <mjk> q?
14:13:42 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
14:13:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:13:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:14:46 <dape> CA: question why we call document "Manageable Affordances Analysis"
14:15:01 <dape> ... I think we should merge this PR and work on updates in future PRs
14:15:37 <kaz> i|Cristiano prepared|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/planning/work-items/analysis/analysis-manageable-affordances.md Manageable Affordances Analysis|
14:15:38 <dape> ... document collects previous proposals
14:15:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:15:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:15:50 <dape> ... we have user stories
14:16:03 <dape> ... for now 3 of them
14:16:11 <dape> ... 1.
14:16:23 <dape> s/... 1. /... 1. Monitorable and Cancelable Actions
14:16:33 <dape> ... 2. Queue of Actions
14:16:50 <dape> ... 3. Express dependencies between affordances
14:17:19 <dape> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:17:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html dape
14:17:38 <dape> CA: Valid flows are of importance
14:18:02 <mjk> q?
14:18:31 <dape> ... document has section "Existing Solutions"
14:18:43 <dape> ... some user stories can be captured with what we have
14:18:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:18:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:18:54 <dape> .. but not in an efficient way
14:19:29 <dape> CA: I also looked into existing technologies
14:19:51 <dape> ... in the end it is not that common
14:19:59 <dape> ... collected list of a view frameworks
14:20:16 <dape> s/a view/a few
14:20:46 <dape> ... our TD spec can describe some frameworks already
14:21:22 <dape> q?
14:21:44 <dape> EK: I have one small comment
14:22:04 <dape> ... about why call it "Affordances"
14:22:34 <dape> s/why call it/why we call it
14:22:50 <dape> ... in BACnet one also needs to send events
14:23:39 <dape> CA: BTW WebAgents user story about dynamic TDs
14:24:14 <dape> EK: Dynamic TDs are an even bigger topic
14:24:28 <dape> CA: Touches also discovery
14:25:41 <mjk> q?
14:26:07 <dape> ... we need more features to capture that behavior
14:26:21 <dape> ... I tend to say we should leave out dynamic TDs
14:26:33 <dape> EK: We should note it somewhere
14:27:32 <dape> CA: Ben commented also, see https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2107#issuecomment-3306724545
14:27:52 <dape> ... not sure how I should express/list it in the document
14:28:11 <dape> EK: Template does not cover all that
14:28:18 <dape> CA: Yes
14:28:57 <dape> ... abstract vs concrete user story
14:29:10 <dape> EK: Specific use-case
14:29:34 <dape> q?
14:29:56 <dape> MK: Concrete protocol to be adapted
14:30:03 <dape> ... we can refer to it
14:30:21 <dape> ... I don't think it is yet another use case
14:30:37 <dape> CA: yes, it's more about end user
14:30:57 <mjk> q?
14:31:25 <dape> ... Ben provided valuable feedback but I suggest to add it in subsection
14:31:39 <dape> EK: like "real life scenarios"
14:31:51 <dape> ... term use case is overloaded
14:32:39 <dape> CA: "Concurrent action instances" is mentioned by Ben also
14:33:08 <dape> ... e.g., printer to print three tickets
14:33:42 <dape> EK: We should consider that aspect
14:33:52 <dape> CA: yes, that's new
14:35:12 <dape> CA: I am not very happy with the current structure
14:35:22 <dape> ... summary comes at the very end
14:35:33 <dape> EK: Makes sense to move it up
14:36:38 <dape> CA: Sections "Existing Solutions" and "Existing technologies analysis with focus on Manageable Actions" somehow overlap
14:36:50 <dape> ... any suggestion how to improve?
14:38:18 <dape> MK: Web of Things Solution instead of Existing solutions
14:39:19 <dape> EK: Move "related real world implementations" under analysis
14:40:05 <dape> MK: Dependencies between affordances
14:40:16 <dape> ... we can start refining this concept
14:40:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:40:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:41:37 <dape> MK: about creating new resources for long running action ?
14:41:43 <kaz> q+
14:41:57 <dape> CA: It is not that common as I initially thought
14:42:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:42:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:43:01 <dape> Kaz: Discussion for this mechanism is very important
14:43:21 <dape> ... I am interested in state machine solution
14:43:33 <dape> ... extending TD
14:43:42 <dape> ... is that too much for TDs?
14:44:16 <dape> ... extending specification I mean
14:44:27 <dape> EK: I agree
14:45:52 <dape> CA: Analysis is in a good state, I think
14:46:00 <dape> ... rework structure and merge soon
14:46:25 <dape> ... and open new issues and working on requirements/solutions et cetera
14:46:26 <mjk> q?
14:46:32 <dape> ack kaz
14:46:44 <dape> EK: Makes sense
14:46:56 <dape> ... we should add Ben's example also
14:47:53 <dape> CA: Can do subsection about BACnet events/alarms also
14:48:14 <dape> MK: General direction looks good
14:48:16 <kaz> q?
14:49:00 <dape> ... status properties might conflict with state machines but we are in a good shape
14:49:49 <dape> MK: AOB?
14:50:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:50:41 <dape> [adjourned]
14:50:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz