13:47:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
13:47:16 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/22-lws-irc
13:47:24 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
13:47:24 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:47:26 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
13:47:30 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
13:47:41 <acoburn> chair: acoburn
13:47:51 <acoburn> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250922T100000/#agenda
13:47:52 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:47:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Introductions & Announcements
13:47:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Action items
13:47:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Prioritization of use cases
13:47:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Face-to-face meeting agenda
13:48:28 <acoburn> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250929T100000/
13:48:50 <acoburn> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250915T100000/
13:49:07 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:49:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/22-lws-minutes.html acoburn
13:59:25 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 1
13:59:25 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions & Announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:00:47 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #lws
14:01:30 <RazaN> RazaN has joined #lws
14:01:31 <gibsonf1> gibsonf1 has joined #lws
14:01:38 <gibsonf1> present+
14:01:49 <acoburn> present+
14:02:02 <RazaN> present+
14:02:51 <bendm> bendm has joined #lws
14:02:57 <bendm> present+
14:03:59 <TallTed> present+
14:04:17 <pchampin> present+
14:04:42 <acoburn> scribenick: RazaN
14:05:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/22-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:05:36 <RazaN> acoburn: First topic is Annoucments and intro.
14:05:55 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 2
14:05:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:06:14 <RazaN> acoburn: Next item on agenda "Open action Items"
14:06:25 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/09/15-lws-minutes.html
14:06:27 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/09/29-lws-minutes.html
14:06:28 <bartb> bartb has joined #lws
14:06:47 <RazaN> acoburn: One from Hadrian "Context around Storage provide user" but he is not available.
14:06:47 <ericP> ericP has joined #lws
14:06:51 <ericP> present+
14:06:52 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 3
14:06:52 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Prioritization of use cases -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:07:00 <bartb> present+
14:07:14 <RazaN> acoburn: last week we went through lot of requirements.
14:07:58 <RazaN> acoburn: we have 39 requirements we got through a lot, 27 of them. Lets go on to the rest.
14:09:45 <RazaN> acoburn: face to face meetings should be helpful to have a clear understanding of what needs to go in core fo the specfications
14:10:20 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:10:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/22-lws-minutes.html pchampin
14:10:59 <RazaN> ... one of the things we have been doing basically going through we need to priortize what needs to discuseed in f2f meeting
14:11:54 <ryey> ryey has joined #lws
14:11:55 <RazaN> +1 in the Scope -1 out of scope.
14:11:58 <ryey> present+
14:12:48 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:12:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/22-lws-minutes.html pchampin
14:12:55 <RazaN> acoburn: We have LWS poll for specfiactions for everyone to add to the poll
14:13:07 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-server-to-server-authentication Server to server authentication
14:13:47 <laurens> laurens has joined #lws
14:13:52 <laurens> present+
14:14:38 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL : Server-to-server Authentication
14:14:46 <gibsonf1> +1
14:14:51 <acoburn> +1
14:14:52 <ericP> +0
14:14:54 <bartb> +1
14:14:57 <pchampin> +1
14:15:09 <TallTed> +1
14:15:15 <bendm> +1
14:15:32 <ryey> +1
14:15:56 <laurens> +1
14:16:06 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-scalable-storage-management Scalable Storage Management
14:16:11 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL : Scalable Storage Management
14:16:18 <ericP> +0
14:16:37 <bendm> +1
14:16:41 <RazaN> +1
14:16:54 <bartb> -0
14:16:56 <gibsonf1> +1
14:17:00 <TallTed> +1
14:17:03 <ryey> q+
14:17:05 <acoburn> +0 (Scalability is important, possibly as a non-normative section)
14:17:07 <laurens> -1
14:17:10 <pchampin> +0
14:17:13 <acoburn> ack next
14:18:02 <RazaN> ryey: Was this requiremnt aimed at unifying different storages, or more about back end storages like triple stores etc.?
14:18:23 <RazaN> acoburn: Back end can be partition or scale
14:18:51 <RazaN> ryey: text in the specificition document is not clear.
14:19:38 <RazaN> acoburn: to me word the scalability is very slippery, its seems to indicate logical structure of the back end on presistent layers.
14:19:46 <ryey> +0 (maybe as non-normative)
14:20:03 <bendm> -0 (I misunderstood)
14:20:16 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-performance-and-scalability Performance and Scalability
14:20:17 <RazaN> STRAWPOOL: Performance and Scalability
14:20:45 <acoburn> +0 (Requirements shouldn't prevent scalable implementations)
14:20:52 <bartb> -1
14:20:56 <RazaN> acoburn: next Performance and Scalability is also related to scalability
14:20:59 <laurens> +0 (rather vague)
14:21:02 <RazaN> +0
14:21:03 <ericP> +0
14:21:03 <bendm> -0
14:21:27 <gibsonf1> +0 (on spec not preventing scalability of implementations)
14:21:33 <TallTed> +0
14:21:49 <ryey> +0.5 (performance is important; but not necessarily as "requirement" on its own)
14:21:51 <pchampin> +0
14:22:02 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-profile-management Profile management
14:22:07 <RazaN> STRAWPOOL: Profile managament
14:22:33 <RazaN> acoburn: The idea is to have different identifers for an entity.
14:22:43 <TallTed> +1
14:22:49 <bendm> +1
14:22:53 <RazaN> +1
14:23:03 <gibsonf1> +1
14:23:09 <bartb> +0
14:23:09 <acoburn> +1
14:23:12 <laurens> +1
14:23:15 <ryey> +1
14:23:16 <TallTed> s/STRAWPOOL:/STRAWPOLL:/g
14:23:19 <ryey> q+
14:23:21 <ericP> -0 # timeline concearns
14:23:28 <acoburn> ack next
14:23:40 <pchampin> +0.5 (using multiple identities should not be prevented, but not sure if the protocol should have specific features for this)
14:24:28 <RazaN> ryey: i need some clarification: by entity are we talking about agent or softaware? In principle anyone can create as many profiles as they want.
14:25:32 <RazaN> acoburn: here entity can means they can be bot or the can be work for some software. but when we got into specification we will look into that
14:26:18 <RazaN> ryey: When we talk about storages and there are two different profiles and different authorization.
14:27:04 <gibsonf1> q+
14:27:09 <acoburn> ack next
14:27:13 <RazaN> acoburn: Question of Access control one of the topic for Face 2 Face meeting and lot of the discussion . do other folks have other thoughts about this particular requirement
14:27:42 <RazaN> gibsonf1: people may be have a main identifier, and several other ones
14:28:48 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-group-based-access-control Group-Based Access Control
14:29:09 <gibsonf1> +1
14:29:11 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL: Group based Access Control
14:29:14 <gibsonf1> +1
14:29:19 <acoburn> +1
14:29:19 <ryey> +1
14:29:25 <bartb> +1
14:29:29 <RazaN> acoburn: Whether this should be core part of specfication
14:29:39 <RazaN> +1
14:29:44 <bendm> +1
14:29:49 <ericP> +1
14:30:22 <pchampin> +0.5 not sure about v1
14:30:35 <TallTed> +1 (so many requirements could be clarified with "as in Unix-like systems")
14:31:04 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-view-based-data-sharing View-Based Data Sharing
14:31:09 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL: View-based Data Sharing
14:32:20 <gibsonf1> +0 (Seems like that would be access control the way its phrased)
14:32:29 <TallTed> +0.5
14:32:43 <bendm> -0 (very useful, but I don't see it happening for v1)
14:32:50 <bartb> +0 (great implementation feature, need not be in spec)
14:32:53 <acoburn> +0 (this would be a nice extension feature)
14:33:00 <pchampin> +0
14:33:11 <RazaN> +0
14:33:16 <ryey> +0.5 (leaving possibility for this to be supported, but doesn't have to be in core spec)
14:33:16 <ericP> -0
14:33:21 <RazaN> +0
14:33:33 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-federated-data-queries Federated Data Queries
14:33:47 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL: Federated Data Queries
14:34:25 <ericP> -0 # prefer that be separate
14:34:29 <pchampin> +0
14:34:29 <bendm> -0 (that's a tall order wrt current specs, no?)
14:34:43 <TallTed> +0 (this is a pretty big lift for v1)
14:34:45 <gibsonf1> +0 (but not on Sparql as the solution)
14:34:52 <acoburn> -1
14:35:02 <bartb> -0
14:35:14 <RazaN> +0
14:35:30 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-collaborative-editing Collaborative Editing
14:35:32 <ryey> +0 (for optimization, but not core spec)
14:35:32 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL: Collaborative Editing
14:36:01 <bendm> q+
14:36:07 <acoburn> ack next
14:36:22 <laurens> -1
14:36:40 <TallTed> +0 (this is a pretty big lift for v1, even optionally, as that option will impact interop)
14:36:50 <RazaN> bendm: I would like to know what the implications of this requirements would be. Adding some data somewhere or metadata need to be required for api.
14:37:17 <RazaN> acoburn: Certain metadata hints maybe helpful but i am not expert in CRDTS.
14:37:25 <ryey> +0 (too complicated for conflict resolution; but necessary hooks or APIs may be provided)
14:37:34 <gibsonf1> +0
14:37:39 <RazaN> bendm: if we have metadata maybe we have later extension of anykind
14:38:05 <ericP> q+ to say that if we include everything we don't want to preclude, we'll have a lot of wandering requirements
14:38:16 <bartb> -1
14:38:28 <acoburn> -1
14:38:50 <acoburn> ack next
14:39:02 <RazaN> ryey: I have some experience in working with CRDTs. They are not magic: any CRDT algorithm for merging will preserve only some aspects of the data. This is hard to do with graph data such as RDF, much more feasible with JSON.
14:39:45 <RazaN> ericP: if we include everything we don't want to preclude, we'll have a lot of wandering requirements
14:39:49 <bendm> -1
14:39:58 <ericP> -1
14:40:26 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-timeseries-data-support Timeseries data support
14:40:27 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL: Time Series Data Support
14:40:57 <laurens> -1
14:40:58 <bendm> -1 (that's a whole other can of worms 😅)
14:41:02 <acoburn> -1
14:41:09 <RazaN> -1
14:41:17 <bartb> +0
14:41:18 <ryey> -1 (unless hooks or APIs can resolve this)
14:41:27 <gibsonf1> -0 (Could be treated as a server capability beyond spec)
14:41:30 <pchampin> -1
14:41:37 <TallTed> -1 (way too complex for v1, especially given other already heavy lifts)
14:41:48 <ericP> -1
14:41:54 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-self-describing-website-publication Self-Describing Website Publication
14:41:57 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL: Self Describing Website Publication
14:42:12 <laurens> -1 (too many security implications)
14:42:24 <bendm> -1
14:42:25 <gibsonf1> +1
14:42:28 <acoburn> -1 (ditto about security)
14:42:37 <bartb> -1
14:42:41 <gibsonf1> q+
14:42:49 <acoburn> ack next
14:42:52 <ericP> +0
14:43:25 <RazaN> gibsonf1: just curious: what are the security implications? What about providing one public container, and only publish what's in it?
14:44:27 <ryey> +0.5 (or can be combined with other mechanisms for similar purposes)
14:44:50 <TallTed> -1 (this feels more like a broad use case than a narrow requirement)
14:44:51 <pchampin> +0
14:45:29 <RazaN> acoburn: basic security models are based on domain names, if you are able to set a cookie and have some java script setup for that, if could you then use it to access data you are not supposed to. This is why, for example, github.com uses a separate domain github.io for user content.
14:46:42 <TallTed> "self-describing website" and "persistent URIs" are big parts of my concern
14:46:45 <RazaN> gibsonf1: is there documentation regarding that?
14:46:57 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-profile-interaction-ui Profile Interaction UI
14:47:10 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL: Profile Interaction UI
14:47:27 <laurens> -1
14:47:34 <bendm> -1
14:47:36 <TallTed> -1 (UI is not Profile)
14:47:38 <acoburn> -1 (this seems like the domain of apps, not the LWS protocol)
14:47:47 <bartb> -1
14:47:50 <gibsonf1> -1
14:47:53 <TallTed> s/Profile)/Protocol)/
14:47:53 <RazaN> -1
14:47:54 <ericP> -1
14:48:04 <ryey> -0.5 (more like an app, not for protocol; unless it implies APIs to interact with such functionality)
14:48:19 <pchampin> -1
14:48:43 <acoburn> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/#dfn-personal-data-projection Personal Data Projection
14:48:45 <RazaN> STRAWPOLL: Personal Data Projection
14:49:14 <bendm> -0
14:49:15 <ericP> -0
14:49:15 <TallTed> -1 (protocol inherits HTTP ConNeg; transformation is or should be outside of protocol's remit)
14:49:24 <acoburn> +0 (Great feature but not for the core)
14:49:31 <gibsonf1> +0
14:49:32 <bartb> -1
14:49:38 <ryey> +0 (good to have relevant mechanisms / APIs to support this; but not necessarily the function itself)
14:50:01 <pchampin> +0 (ditto acoburn)
14:50:36 <RazaN> acoburn: We have reviewed all requirements. I'll compile that and have somethig to show next week.
14:50:43 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 4
14:50:43 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Face-to-face meeting agenda -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:51:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/22-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:51:32 <RazaN> acoburn: we dont need to set the agenda but i would like to know who is going to attend in face to face in person. what would be useful as some of these from the LWS polls
14:51:50 <RazaN> acoburn: Complex requirements would be around authentication and query
14:52:21 <RazaN> acoburn: Are there other thoughts, things be on the agenda to discuss face to face meeting?
14:52:36 <pchampin> +1 to the topics proposed by acoburn
14:53:54 <RazaN> acoburn: one other thing we want to consider: there are three days, some folks want to leave on firday and arriving on wednesday so thursday is a good day to have a more focused discussion.
14:54:03 <RazaN> acoburn: any logistics or any other items?
14:55:06 <RazaN> laurens: i already sent information on the mailing list. everyone who is attendign let us know so we can manage the arrival and have badges avaialble for evryone at the desk to collect.
14:55:27 <laurens> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-lws-wg/2025Sep/0001.html
14:56:21 <RazaN> laurens: I will check will pchampin to provide a link for remote calling. We should have technical means to allow remore participation, but probably only audio.
14:56:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/22-lws-minutes.html TallTed