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14:50:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/15-coga-irc
14:50:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:50:05 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:56:19 <Lisa> regrets+ becca
14:56:28 <Lisa> Q?
14:59:18 <Lisa> agenda, actions and scribe list : https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit?tab=t.8zemqdwbcwtr
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15:00:58 <Eric_hind> present+
15:02:01 <Lisa> scribe: Eric_hind
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15:02:13 <Lisa> next item
15:02:14 <julierawe> present+
15:02:32 <Lisa> agenda, actions and scribe list : https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit?tab=t.8zemqdwbcwtr
15:02:43 <Eric_hind> lisa: Note that the scribe list is moved to the doc mentioned.
15:03:14 <Eric_hind> lisa: There is a tab that says scribe list
15:03:20 <Lisa> next item
15:03:29 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
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15:05:03 <Rain> present+
15:06:00 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Note that this doc is for the new template - we're making a new version with new title.  We are drafting the patterns here, showing useful links and resources.
15:06:32 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Most would agree that the hardest work is in the first pattern.  After that, the tend to get easier
15:07:15 <Eric_hind> Lisa: First pattern is 4.2.1 (existing Making Content Usable) Make the Purpose of your page clear.
15:09:01 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Note that there is a pattern migration tracking sheet where we track existing metadata and new sections, titles, move status, etc.
15:11:30 <julierawe> q+
15:11:32 <Eric_hind> Lisa: There is a PDF of what a pattern would look like (Making COntent Usable Design pattern Dec 2024.pdf).  There is also a slide deck for COGA strcuture v2 - Prototype designs - April 2024 that show more of the UX processes.
15:11:55 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
15:12:06 <Jan> present+
15:12:28 <Lisa> agenda+ when do we brake out new pattern
15:12:55 <Rain> q+
15:13:00 <Eric_hind> julierawe: We will need to figure out when should something be it's own pattern, and when should it be nested under What to Do. Items tucked in under a main pattern tend to get less attention.
15:13:02 <Lisa> ack next
15:14:08 <Rachael> q+ to ask about guidance on these decisions
15:14:16 <Lisa> ack next
15:14:55 <Eric_hind> Rain: We do need to find a fine balance between too much and too little information at the top (which gets seen/read first).    There will be careful consideration of the wording at the top about how to read or pick downwards in the pattern.
15:15:21 <Eric_hind> q+
15:15:51 <Rachael> q-
15:16:10 <Lisa> ack next
15:16:56 <Lisa> nummbering - to discuss
15:17:14 <Eric_hind> Eric_hind: Numbering to be discused?  Yes, after we wrap up the content.
15:19:47 <julierawe> q+
15:19:53 <Eric_hind> Lisa: For summary intro, we do need to extensively review the text as this will provide context for what is coming later.
15:21:09 <Lisa> ack next
15:23:18 <julierawe> q+
15:23:23 <Eric_hind> julierawe: question, are there any examples of storyboard narrative.. Rain: yes, there are examples/mockups.  They may be a bit lightweight for now but they are protoypes/examples (short visual)
15:24:19 <Lisa> ack next
15:25:08 <Eric_hind> Rain: Note that we found (through user reviews) that storyboards are often used as a tool of persuasion - users go here to get designs to show others.
15:25:31 <Lisa> agenda+ story board
15:26:12 <Eric_hind> Rain: Summaries and Storyboards are really meant for two audiences, content users and advocates.
15:28:32 <Eric_hind> Lisa: What to do, this is a specific 'instruction' style.  The order of preference of what to do will be linear - first one presented is the most preferred, but is not the only way.
15:30:31 <Eric_hind> Lisa: What to Do's will have summaries, do's and don'ts.  There can be many examples and there needs to be context.
15:30:40 <Lisa> Q?
15:32:19 <Eric_hind> Lisa: purple highlighted items indicate where more context may be needed.
15:33:26 <Eric_hind> Lisa: WCAG compatibility notes section will show the existing requirements that are in WCAG that are likely known by reader.
15:36:37 <julierawe> q+
15:36:39 <Eric_hind> Lisa: next example of Signposts includes multiple Do examples and Don't examples
15:38:08 <Lisa> ack next
15:38:15 <Eric_hind> Lisa: In purple are many 'to create' illustrations
15:38:40 <Eric_hind> julierawe: for Rain, how many examples are ideal (to do, don't, etc).
15:38:55 <Rachael> q+ to make a suggestion
15:39:20 <Eric_hind> Rain: No ideal number, but suggest avoiding too many to not overwhelm users.
15:39:51 <Rachael> q-
15:40:34 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Added tab for 'questions for feedback', captured Rain and Julie's discussion on quantity of do's and don'ts.
15:41:52 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Consideration for international audiences, this has been asked by that group to promote internationalization concerns by shifting to top.  For now, we're keeping it at the current place in the flow.
15:42:57 <julierawe> q+
15:43:00 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Some of the considerations may be more universal design rather than internationalization.  We need to discuss.
15:44:20 <Rain> q+
15:44:27 <Lisa> ack next
15:44:33 <Lisa> ack next
15:44:34 <Eric_hind> julierawe: There may be points for internationalization that fit or are discussed in other patterns.
15:45:12 <Eric_hind> Rain: Repetition may be a good thing - rather than annoying, it reinforces (to a reasonable degree)
15:47:09 <Eric_hind> Lisa: How to test section has Recommended path with Expert testing, user testing, Automated testing.
15:49:17 <Eric_hind> Lisa: User testing section may need to have literal instructions  to do against a scenario.  For example, have a distraction, then go back to the user test.
15:50:21 <Eric_hind> Lisa: For automated testing may have simple result checking, as well as AI-enhancements (or no AI decisions path).
15:51:44 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Batch testing tries to give those testing a 'batch' of actions to test against multiple patterns - the batches are numbered.
15:53:33 <julierawe> q+
15:53:39 <Eric_hind> Lisa: How it helps should be 2-3 lines max.  The Example Use Needs would have examples, personas, Summary and Expanded Story.
15:55:08 <Lisa> ack next
15:56:00 <Eric_hind> julierawe: For Use Needs, can we use same theme like Task Completion for different user stories.
15:56:35 <Eric_hind> Rain: This should be fine, we could potentially present the same themes  in an different context of viewing the document.
15:57:28 <Eric_hind> Lisa: We should note that this view (of themes) would be useful
15:57:49 <Rachael> q+
15:57:50 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Do we approve this as-is?
15:57:52 <Lisa> aprove +1 , more time -1
15:57:54 <Rain> q+
15:58:00 <Lisa> with minor editorial
15:58:25 <Lisa> ack next
15:58:46 <Rachael> +1
15:59:07 <Eric_hind> Lisa: Vote is to put in github repository.
15:59:25 <Jan> +1
15:59:32 <Eric_hind> +1
16:00:01 <julierawe> q+
16:00:07 <Lisa> ack next
16:00:25 <Lisa> to aprove putting it in github
16:00:36 <Lisa> there may be editorial chages
16:00:55 <LenB> +1
16:01:57 <Eric_hind> julierawe: Should we sent to the list for review?  Lisa: Yes, will send to the list.
16:02:23 <julierawe> Question forLen, Jan:
16:02:37 <Lisa> also send to the list for agreement
16:02:40 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:02:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/15-coga-minutes.html Lisa
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