09:57:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #data-shapes
09:57:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/09-data-shapes-irc
09:57:33 <AndyS> meeting: SHACL Rules TF
09:58:45 <simonstey> simonstey has joined #data-shapes
09:59:09 <AndyS> rrsagent, make logs public
09:59:21 <AndyS> rrsagent, draft minutes
09:59:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/09-data-shapes-minutes.html AndyS
09:59:42 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting
09:59:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
09:59:43 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), AndyS
10:00:02 <AndyS> meeting: SHACL Rules TF
10:00:07 <AndyS> present+
10:00:13 <simonstey> present+
10:00:36 <DavidHabgood> DavidHabgood has joined #data-shapes
10:00:43 <AndyS> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:00:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/09-data-shapes-minutes.html AndyS
10:02:20 <Robert> Robert has joined #data-shapes
10:02:24 <Robert> present+
10:03:07 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose AndyS
10:04:03 <simonstey> AndyS: choosing sections, try and refine what we're talking about in each of them and get some kind of scoping idea
10:04:35 <simonstey> ... process-wise I put in a PR to change the document title and to move its location in Github
10:05:29 <simonstey> ... we should cover the entire list today, rather than diving into any topic too deeply
10:05:45 <simonstey> ... [shares screen]
10:06:27 <simonstey> ... section 6 is currently just a place holder
10:09:53 <simonstey> TOPIC: Points to cover in the document
10:10:23 <simonstey> AndyS: So, talking about attaching rules to shapes. Parameterizations come up. How we explain valuation, maybe.
10:10:50 <simonstey> ... Detaching rules to shapes, parameterization, and the negation ones that we need to make sure we have some... these are ones I don't know what the expectations are, and I'm not sure exactly what we mean. And obviously, is there anything else that we should have? So I guess the first call is... are there sections and discussions that ought to go
10:10:50 <simonstey> in the document that aren't listed there?
10:11:04 <simonstey> DavidHabgood: I've not brought it up last time we met, but... the stratification need a mention, or...? Is it, I don't know, implied, or refer to other specs, sort of thing.
10:13:52 <DavidHabgood> simonstey: attachment of rules in shacl 1.0 sparql construct, execution once per focus node. sh:condition vs. where clause in query, same functionality, different performance. Rules could have sh:order
10:15:02 <DavidHabgood> AndyS: clarified no dependency relationship in 1.0. How to handle rules depending on information from other shapes
10:15:38 <DavidHabgood> simonstey: it is not specified how this sort of issue should be handled; pyshacl & jena differ here
10:20:04 <DavidHabgood> AndyS & simonstey: can't express dependencies for rule ordering in shacl 1.0 at present
10:22:20 <simonstey> https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl-af/#rules-execution
10:25:23 <Robert> Trigger rules on constraint violations?
10:25:47 <simonstey> https://github.com/sparna-git/owl2shacl
10:43:05 <Robert> Use sh:condition to specify when rules are triggered.
10:44:01 <Robert> Attaching rules shapes and trigger them for target nodes is very flexible with SHACL 1.2 targeting.
11:06:40 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
11:06:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, simonstey, Robert
11:06:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
11:06:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/09-data-shapes-minutes.html Zakim
11:06:49 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
11:06:49 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave us
11:06:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
11:06:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #data-shapes