12:53:27 RRSAgent has joined #smart-cities 12:53:31 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/08-smart-cities-irc 12:53:50 meeting: Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities IG 12:54:17 agenda: https://github.com/w3c/smart-cities/blob/main/README.md#8-sep-2025 12:56:06 present+ Kaz_Ashimura 13:00:23 mjk has joined #smart-cities 13:01:22 present+ Juanjo_Hierro, Torbjorn_Lahrin, Tomoaki_Mizushima 13:01:27 rrsagent, make log public 13:01:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:01:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/08-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz 13:01:46 Mizushima has joined #smart-cities 13:02:24 present+ Michael_Koster 13:02:37 jhierro has joined #smart-cities 13:03:55 present+ Martin_Bauer 13:05:09 Martin has joined #smart-cities 13:06:11 scribenick: kaz 13:06:43 Can someone place the link to the GitHub repository? 13:06:48 agenda: https://github.com/w3c/smart-cities/blob/main/README.md#8-sep-2025 13:07:00 topic: Logistics 13:07:07 subtopic: Guests 13:07:45 kaz: Torbjorn is now an official IE 13:07:49 ... also we have two guests from ETSI/FIWARE 13:07:57 mjk: yes 13:08:07 ... discussion about NGSI-LD 13:08:23 ... also Torbjorn from the Nordic Smart Cities activity 13:08:26 ... welcome! 13:09:04 topic: Quick Intro 13:09:13 (starting with Juanjo) 13:09:27 juanjo: FIWARE tech committee Chair 13:10:33 martin: principle standardization 13:10:46 ... vice Chair of FIWARE committee 13:10:55 ... NGSI-LD from the beginning 13:11:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:11:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/08-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz 13:11:35 torbjorn: nice to have you both 13:11:47 ... in Sweden, we have Nordic Smart City project 13:12:05 ... using the platform based on FIWARE stuff 13:12:18 ... so welcome to see the technology 13:12:34 ... also smart city community within W3C 13:12:54 ... also engaged with European dataspace work 13:13:13 chair: Koster 13:13:49 ... also Chair of strategic coordination for Metaverse 13:14:54 mjk: a lot of activities around those topics 13:15:05 ... move things forward in more coordinated way would be nice 13:15:28 topic: Minues 13:15:33 s/Minues/Minutes/ 13:15:42 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/07/07-smart-cities-minutes.html July-7 13:15:53 (goes through the previous minutes) 13:16:24 s/(go/mjk: (go/ 13:16:33 ... we're working on the technology landscape 13:16:59 ... adding more categories for the technology 13:17:12 ... also vocabulary is very important 13:17:31 ... pretty broad activities 13:17:47 torbjorn: Mark and I had discussion about ontologies for smart cities 13:17:58 ... Mark has been working on that, that's good 13:18:07 ... the problem is there are many of them 13:18:16 ... people have their own ontologies 13:18:34 ... if we can have some ontology for everybody, that would be great 13:18:51 ... we have 3-4 vendors in Sweden but all of them have their own ones 13:19:12 ... make one changes their own ontology 13:19:35 ... so there is a challenge about alignment and interoperability 13:19:52 ... sharing data within, e.g., European Dataspace 13:20:10 ... convergence is needed 13:20:25 ... happy to have discussion about the problem 13:20:36 ... would elaborate the challenges 13:21:04 juanjo: one of the advantages why FIWARE has become popular 13:21:16 ... across various cities 13:21:30 ... guess you're familiar with the models 13:21:38 ... smart data models, etc. 13:21:43 ... associated to that 13:21:49 q+ 13:22:16 ... what we have is really implemented approach 13:22:32 ... decided based on communities' requirements 13:22:53 ... company organization implementing and contributing to real projects 13:23:08 ... analysis and potential collisions 13:23:26 ... we have so far big number of cities working on that 13:23:32 ... and widely adopted 13:23:49 ... implementing FIWARE's datamodel 13:24:05 ... in many cities before FIWARE is around 13:24:20 ... there was a gap on how to integrate things 13:24:51 ... we handle that based on the idea of digital twins 13:25:12 ... fancy tools of 3D visualization itself is not important but the data model is important 13:25:19 ... structured layer to be used 13:25:30 ... context broker implements the mechanism 13:25:51 ... this arouse to overcome the issues with old systems 13:26:22 ... adaptation of the mechanism will accomplish the interoperability 13:26:31 ... between one data and another 13:26:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:26:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/08-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz 13:26:43 q? 13:27:02 ... what is important is the data 13:27:19 ... what data to be provided by the system 13:27:31 ... e.g., for a traffic management system 13:27:51 ... also what kind of data to be used to improve the system 13:28:16 ... all the data to be harmonized with each other 13:28:49 ... ID management in addition to NGSI-LD 13:30:14 ... would like to talk about the background around FIWARE today 13:30:46 kaz: great 13:30:59 ... actually, your presentation is the main topic for today 13:31:13 ... please let Koster wrap-up the minutes review quickly 13:31:16 mjk: ok 13:31:23 ... (wrap-up the minutes review) 13:32:00 ... (quickly goes through the rest of the minutes from July-7 meeting) 13:32:31 ... Mark Fox gave nice description about his ontology work 13:33:14 ... any comments/questions? 13:33:24 (none) 13:33:30 (minutes approved) 13:33:54 q- 13:34:05 topic: F2F Meeting at TPAC 2025 13:34:19 mjk: TPAC is the main tech meeting of W3C 13:35:24 ... we'd hold a F2F meeting as breakout during TPAC 13:35:43 torbjorn: when to have that? 13:35:54 kaz: probably on Wednesday, Nov 12 13:36:37 torbjorn: hybrid? 13:36:39 kaz: yes 13:36:50 ... and we can decide on the date later :) 13:37:02 mjk: sounds good 13:37:22 topic: NGSI-LD Collaboration 13:38:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:38:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/08-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz 13:39:09 @@@ slides tbd 13:39:21 kaz: do you think you can share your slides publicly? 13:39:33 juanjo: yes, after some changes 13:39:35 kaz: great 13:39:49 subtopic: About FIWARE 13:39:56 juanjo: (gives background about FIWARE) 13:40:08 ... IoT-enables smart solutions 13:40:33 ... also smart organizations 13:40:54 ... working on dataspaces for 12 years or so 13:41:02 ... invocation of services 13:41:51 ... FIWARE community intends to contribute to creation/evolution 13:42:03 subtopic: Digital Twins as basis for the architecture... 13:42:16 juanjo: digital twin representation for the real world 13:42:43 ... constantly keep up to date 13:43:15 subtopic: Digital Twins: an approach for integration at multiple levels... 13:43:33 juanjo: architecting, integration, ... 13:43:49 subtopic: What are we referring to as Digital Twins 13:44:02 juanjo: digital "replica of an asset 13:44:13 ... characterized by attributes 13:44:22 ... values of attributes may change over time 13:44:27 ... typically have a location 13:45:37 ... how to implement actions 13:45:47 ... also handling common data models 13:46:00 s/how to/APIs about how to/ 13:46:18 ... NGSIv2 => ETSI GSI-LD API 13:46:31 subtopic: Data Exchange API: ETSI NGSI-LD 13:47:09 juanjo: (Context Broker connected with bus, citizen, shop, ...) 13:47:31 ... not only for citizens but various industry domains 13:47:47 ... some of the targets are related to multiple domains 13:48:02 ... NGSI-LD is a simple powerful REST API 13:48:27 ... simple: what you want in a RESTful API 13:48:41 ... entity types, entities, attributes 13:48:59 ... GET, POST, PUT, PATCH, DELETE operations 13:49:28 ... powerful: supported operations 13:49:59 ... geo-queries, subscription/notification, pull/push, multiple data rendering, ... 13:50:16 subtopic: FIWARE driving key standards: Smart Data Models 13:50:47 -> https://github.com/smart-data-models Smart Data Models 13:50:57 juanjo: collaboratig with relevant orgs 13:51:04 s/ratig/rating/ 13:51:17 ... how the map into JSON-LD also 13:52:05 ... data modes based on well-established standards, e.g., schema.org, SAREF, IEC CIM in Energy 13:52:30 subtopic: Smart Vertical solution: Reference Architecture (Smart Cities) 13:52:47 juanjo: multi-tier architecture 13:53:18 ... 4 major layers, data acquisition layer, processing/analysis/visualization 13:54:03 ... AI/ML algorithm to be also applied 13:54:49 subtopic: Example: Initial Smart City Reference Architecture 13:54:50 (diagram) 13:55:00 juanjo: (describes the diagram) 13:55:28 ... there might be a system which doesn't require FIWARE standard 13:55:59 ... but the architecture including the Context Broker can work that as well 13:56:21 ... bring all the data to the common data layer 13:56:50 ... the data can be consumed by the other vertical solutions 13:57:28 ... these days considering VC/DID as well for identification management 13:57:42 ... ability to create market places also 13:58:07 ... establish the contract for various services 13:58:50 q+ 13:58:55 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:58:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/08-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz 13:59:29 subtopic: WoT:Things and GSI-LD:Entities 13:59:57 juanjo: WoT Thing may map well to an NGSI-LD Entity 14:00:07 s/WoT/a WoT/ 14:00:32 .... (shows an example Thing Description about that idea) 14:01:06 subtopic: Compatibility of NGSI-LD with Thing Models/Descriptions 14:01:46 juanjo: WoT may specify what would be the default Thing Description derived from a Thing Model 14:02:17 ... then how to implement Actions for NGSI-LD should be clarified 14:02:31 ... (shows some more discussion points) 14:02:47 subtopic: Summary 14:02:58 juanjo: WoT and NGSI-LD look compatible 14:03:12 ... opportunity to specify how they can work together 14:04:26 ... but we need further clarification to see the details 14:04:54 ... we did some work about that including DTDL, etc. 14:05:27 ... we need standard way for digital twin representation as well 14:05:47 ... how to harmonize that layer is also a question 14:06:05 ... so collaboration with W3C has been established 14:06:25 ... 1:1 conversion with WoT Thing Description to be discussed 14:06:54 ... Property is comparably straightforward 14:07:01 q? 14:07:27 ... that's the basic background of the collaboration 14:07:41 mjk: that's really exciting! 14:08:08 ... sort of start-off for further discussion 14:08:24 ... JSON Schema as basic definition language, for example 14:09:14 -> https://www.w3.org/2024/06/smart-cities/ Charter 14:09:26 kaz: completely inline with the Charter 14:09:37 torbjorn: also interested 14:10:31 ... a bit curious about how to support the declaration for Citiverse, etc. 14:10:39 ... what possibility do you see? 14:10:51 juanjo: depends on what we find 14:11:20 ... we already have experience on integrating different technologies with NGSI-LD 14:11:33 ... integrating more out-of-desk things 14:11:46 ... it's still something to be developed 14:11:57 ... so far our impression is very promising 14:12:01 torbjorn: ok 14:12:28 ... another question about the main branch for integration 14:12:47 ... we're referring to NGSI-LD also 14:13:13 ... on top of NGSI-LD 14:13:56 juanjo: this was something several years ago 14:14:07 ... reference implementation of each component 14:14:16 ... we're going for more inclusive approach 14:14:51 ... there are several different context brokers 14:14:56 ack k 14:15:32 ... there is no enforcement to force people make commitment to our repository, for example 14:16:52 torbjorn: bringing what we did back to the NGSI-LD repo? 14:17:43 juanjo: there is the FIWARE catalog but you don't have to take all of them 14:19:00 torbjorn: there is a sensitive branch when people make contributions 14:19:22 ... there are several vendors from Sweden, though 14:19:35 q+ 14:20:16 ... would be helpful if we could clarify how to organize FIWARE stuff and W3C stuff 14:20:56 kaz: that's really a good point 14:21:06 ... and should be included into the topics for this IG 14:21:21 ... for example, W3C Registry mechanism could be helpful for that purpose 14:21:36 mjk: exactly, this is really good point 14:21:42 ... any other business for today? 14:22:11 topic: Next meeting 14:22:29 juanjo: when to have the next meeting? 14:22:39 kaz: usually hold on the 4th Monday 14:23:09 ... but will create a Doodle poll to fine a good slot for people 14:23:16 mjk: ok 14:23:36 ... meeting adjourned 14:23:42 [adjourned] 14:23:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:23:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/08-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz 14:33:38 Martin has left #smart-cities 16:20:18 Zakim has left #smart-cities