14:53:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pmwg-a11y
14:53:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/04-pmwg-a11y-irc
14:53:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pmwg-a11y
14:53:39 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pmwg-a11y
14:53:40 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:54:08 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:54:25 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
14:55:06 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Publisher contact for additional accessibility information: Issue #2702
14:55:17 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Example of certifierCredential property: Issue #2760
14:55:40 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Use cases for extended descriptions.
14:55:56 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
14:59:29 <George> George has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:00:05 <George> present+
15:01:19 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:02:48 <gpellegrino> present+
15:02:56 <gautierchomel> present+
15:04:18 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:04:30 <CharlesL> present+
15:05:18 <CharlesL> scribe+
15:05:26 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:05:26 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Publisher contact for additional accessibility information: Issue #2702 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:06:02 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2702
15:06:17 <CharlesL> mgarrish: we don't have a way to put in contact info for metadata.
15:06:51 <Madeleine> Madeleine has joined #pmwg-a11y
15:07:03 <Madeleine> present+
15:07:30 <George> q+
15:08:17 <gpellegrino> q+
15:08:26 <CharlesL> ... in display guide we don't account for 2 fields we have publisher / trusted intermediary contact. Do we need 2 contact fields for EPUB maybe an accessibility contact field. not sure when you would have 2 contacts. why contact the publisher or the intermediary, we we every try to display this in the display guide but maybe only this is in ONIX.  what are we accounting for here?  Why don't we display trusted intermediary's. What are
15:08:26 <CharlesL> we expecting for a11y contact email 1 field, 1 value and we don't care which it is.
15:08:42 <AvneeshSingh> ack george
15:08:49 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: maybe EAA has a part in this.
15:09:21 <CharlesL> George: in WIPO they have a trusted intermediary. from our perspective the publisher contact would be the one we would want to display.
15:09:27 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:09:57 <CharlesL> gpellegrino: I agree that is the data we are using in the ONIX techniques. publisher contact. 1 contact field generic could be a specialized library just a11y contact.
15:10:23 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:10:34 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: MTM in Sweden.
15:11:29 <CharlesL> mgarrish: a11yContact or something like that. that works. I need to check the display guide but if the display guide may need to be updated since it might call out the "publisher" specifically  I can create a new issue for that if thats the case.
15:11:30 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:11:30 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Example of certifierCredential property: Issue #2760 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:11:51 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2760
15:11:57 <CharlesL> mgarrish: are we at a point to make changes with this?
15:12:17 <CharlesL> ... is it a URL or text is it only URLs or it
15:13:49 <CharlesL> Charles: in GCA's case the URL is our credential and thousands of books has this as the certifierCredential. Vitalsource does look for this to put our GCA logo.
15:14:46 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: if it is text, and we put a URL in it, it doesn't prevent anyone to actually parse the URL and provide the logo or provide a linked URL.
15:15:13 <CharlesL> mgarrish: the issue is it should have a Human Readable name. instead of the ugly URL.
15:15:56 <CharlesL> ..., we don't need a registry of what URLs are out there.  Do we need to change anything?
15:16:20 <CharlesL> George: Bookshare puts in readable names.
15:16:25 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:16:59 <CharlesL> mgarrish: it will be up to the agency what should be in this field. we are open and doesn't prefer anything.
15:17:51 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:17:59 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: the demand here is show some examples. show some text examples if you want to use a URL then it is your responisbility to reach out to the distributors to display something else like a logo.
15:18:15 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:18:15 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Use cases for extended descriptions. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:18:19 <George> q+
15:18:51 <gpellegrino> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/wiki/Extended-Descriptions-Use-Cases-and-Reading-System-Expectations
15:19:04 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:19:20 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:19:26 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: thanks Gregorio for this first draft.  can we highlight the use cases were we can have some examples where having specific roles for the link to the extended description and another for the desc. itself. so we can have a good use cases for APA discussion.
15:20:36 <CharlesL> George: we could at the end suggest 2 roles or we could suggest it up-front so they can concentrate on our suggestions. Maybe we communicate this to APA we talk about 2 roles that are needed and point to the use case.
15:20:43 <CharlesL> q+
15:22:28 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: 1 question what is the RS behavior it will help us evaluating our solution of roles is correct, and Gregorio is correct and what we can to to improve that.  Why not put those use cases put upfront that AT and announce the presence of a link to the ext. descriptions and announce the presence of the descriptions. ACE needs to collect these extended descriptions.  so we can build a case for our roles.
15:22:31 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:23:16 <CharlesL> Charles: agrees we need strong use cases to justify the new roles to APA and ARIA ultimately.
15:23:17 <gpellegrino> q+
15:23:28 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:24:47 <CharlesL> gpellegrino: we can stress other things, AT that should be able to list all the images of ext-descs in a page. for Web we can stress crawlers images with extended descriptions for roles on based on automatic injection.
15:25:09 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: we should work with Gregorio to refine it further.
15:25:54 <CharlesL> George: do we want the issue to state there is a need for 2 roles. here are the use cases for these two roles. in this wiki that is linked in the agenda
15:26:18 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: we need to move this wiki.  should we move it to an issue?
15:26:27 <CharlesL> George: what about APA's issue tracker.
15:26:43 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: we need to be prepare.
15:28:12 <CharlesL> mgarrish: may not want to have a issue. ARIA won't be crazy about a new role on a link.
15:28:42 <CharlesL> ... you have describedby/details and now a new role on a link will get major pushback.
15:29:03 <CharlesL> ... maybe if we add it to the DPUB ARIA.
15:29:23 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: maybe a call with Janina specifically before we open it up to everyone.
15:32:12 <CharlesL> mgarrish: maybe transfer the wiki page over to the epub specs.
15:32:29 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: that would be a good place.
15:32:46 <mgarrish> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/wiki
15:32:48 <CharlesL> ... refining it further, smaller group to help with this effort.
15:33:30 <CharlesL> ... we will go through 1 more iteration then ask Matt to move it.
15:33:58 <CharlesL> George: we are saying this is initiated by publishing, isn't this useful for web pages in general?
15:35:06 <CharlesL> gpellegrino: I am not sure. for sure it would be important for interaction with AT, but POV what user should expect when you click on a link to an extended description, that part on UX we are trying to achieve is publishing specific.  we need to stress AT interactions.
15:36:12 <CharlesL> mgarrish: nature of roles these are potentially to the ARIA group first and may be kicked back to DPUB. lets bring a general approach to the broader group.
15:37:02 <CharlesL> George: general ARIA saying extendedDescription and extendedDescriptionLink, are those the words we want?
15:38:54 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: if its only in DPUB ARIA its mainly for the publishing ecosystem but could have broader appeal which we can see what the appetite is for it in a more broader sense.
15:39:29 <CharlesL> ... Gregorio and I can start iterating on this, and ask for comments and move ahead more rapidly
15:40:46 <CharlesL> mgarrish: I can discuss with ARIA editors to get a feel for the appeal of entertaining this new idea.
15:44:28 <CharlesL> gpellegrino: aria-details you can ref. multiple IDs and other issues identifying what the aria-details pointing to the ext description link.
15:45:38 <CharlesL> rrsagent, make logs public
15:45:44 <CharlesL> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:45:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/04-pmwg-a11y-minutes.html CharlesL
15:46:03 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #pmwg-a11y
15:46:43 <AvneeshSingh> ack nextzakim, leave
15:46:52 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
15:46:52 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, George, gpellegrino, gautierchomel, CharlesL, Madeleine
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