13:59:25 RRSAgent has joined #wpwg 13:59:30 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/08/28-wpwg-irc 13:59:31 Meeting: Web Payments Working Group 13:59:43 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/Agenda-20250828 13:59:52 Chair: Ian 13:59:52 Scribe: Ian 13:59:54 present+ 13:59:59 present+ Rouslan_Solomakhin 14:00:05 present+ Rogerio_Matsui 14:00:10 present+ Dan_Pelegero 14:00:14 present+ Nakjo_Shishkov 14:00:16 Roger has joined #wpwg 14:00:18 present+ Gustavo_Kok 14:00:23 present+ Daniel_Wyckoff 14:00:55 present+ Taskashi_Minamii 14:01:34 Takashi has joined #wpwg 14:01:40 present+ 14:02:03 JeanLuc has joined #WPWG 14:02:04 present+ Stephen_McGruer 14:02:57 Renebl has joined #wpwg 14:03:56 present+ Jean-Luc_di_Manno 14:03:56 present+ Stephen_McGruer 14:04:02 present+ Jeff_Owenson 14:04:12 present+ Pavan 14:04:12 jpm-block has joined #wpwg 14:04:19 present+ Albert_Schibani 14:04:28 present+ Rene_Leveille 14:04:32 present+ David_Benoit 14:04:34 present+ Fahad 14:04:36 present+ Sami 14:04:40 present+ Sharanya 14:04:47 present+ Max_Crone 14:04:50 present+ Henna 14:04:53 present+ Bjorn 14:04:56 Hello! 14:04:59 present+ Juan-Pablo_Marzetti 14:05:05 present+ Shunsuke_Oka 14:05:11 kenneth_entersekt has joined #wpwg 14:05:15 present+ Kenneth_Diaz 14:05:48 topic: Facilitated Payments Links 14:05:57 -> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/blob/gh-pages/wallet-tech.md 14:06:47 daniel-wyckoff has joined #wpwg 14:07:26 present+ Vivian 14:08:11 present+ Nick_Telford-Reed 14:08:16 presetn+ Ashwany_Rayu 14:08:20 present+ Nick_Telford-Reed 14:09:14 smcgruer_[EST]: We spoke with stakeholders in various parts of the world about painful user journeys involving handoff from browser to another device, typically via a QR code. Often relates to push payments, but not always. 14:09:33 ...Payment Request covers this space but one thing we heard from merchants 14:09:58 ...was that it was not feasible in some cases to use a full JavaScript API, but also because a lot of the flows are server-to-server concept. 14:10:11 ...and so the merchant site is not in a position to received information and then hand it to a server. 14:10:15 present+ Steve_Cole 14:10:19 present+ Gerhard_Oosthuizen 14:11:01 Gerhard has joined #wpwg 14:11:08 smcgruer_[EST]: So Facilitated Payment Links is declarative in the head of the HTMl document. The browser can hand off the data to a payment app, whether the directive is for a specific app or a generalized method that can be handled by multiple apps. 14:11:37 ...the browser can help the user get to the app, or "do nothing" if the user has no relevant app. 14:12:10 ...we want to explore questions like "can the apps be payment apps in the PR API sense?" 14:12:16 q? 14:12:34 q+ to ask about the same device QR use case 14:12:37 ...Chrome has shipped support for this API for a variety of payment methods (mostly in southeast asia, and we can learn from that) 14:12:42 ack nicktr 14:12:42 nicktr, you wanted to ask about the same device QR use case 14:13:11 gkok has joined #wpwg 14:13:13 How does the merchant know when the browser cannot handle any payment link? When nothing happens, how can user pay? 14:13:39 nicktr: A key use case is avoiding the need to scan a QR code when it's displayed on your mobile phone 14:13:50 q+ 14:14:21 smcgruer_[EST]: We have also seen flows where users are expected to have 2 phones, which is painful 14:14:33 q+ Sharanya 14:14:48 ack gkok 14:15:02 gkok: What are the payment methods already supported? And can we test it? 14:15:56 ...we support two of the methods that were mentioned by rouslan 14:16:36 smcgruer_[EST]: At the time of purchase where you would render different options on the screen, you would have links in the document head, and the browser can read that info and offer to the user (without telling the merchant) the app 14:16:42 Albert has joined #wpwg 14:16:53 gkok: If you have traffic info about existing merchants, that would be very helpful. 14:17:03 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/CLakdlss/ 14:17:06 ack Sharanya 14:18:17 Sharanya: Is it possible to indicate a specific payment instrument as part of the handoff? 14:18:30 smcgruer_[EST]: That is likely dependent on the payment method, but it's likely possible 14:18:45 ...personally I think about it as one step earlier "selecting a method" 14:18:50 nicktr: Or a payment method or application 14:19:02 smcgruer_[EST]: But I think the Api is pretty agnostic. 14:19:38 q? 14:20:10 Juan_Pablo: Suppose I'm a merchant. I would offer a set of payment methods in the page but also links in the head...And the browser would show the options in the head? 14:20:39 ...how does the merchant know that no links lead to a UX selection? 14:21:06 smcgruer_[EST]: We assume both buttons in the page and also these links in the head 14:21:32 present+ Ryan_Watkins 14:21:39 present+ Sameer_Tare 14:22:00 smcgruer_[EST]: In the case where no links match, the user is just looking at what the merchant provides in the page. 14:22:41 Juan_Pablo: If there is a match and I can choose an option, because the merchant site doesn't know that the user is going through that flow, how do we prevent that the elements on the page from being used by the buyer. 14:22:58 ...e.g., accidentally paying through 2 channels since the backend payment is asynchronous. 14:23:08 ...would we block the web site UI until a link resolves 14:23:35 smcgruer_[EST]: That's a good question. That's something that can already happen today with payment methods shown in a page. 14:23:50 benoit has joined #wpwg 14:24:38 (See slides from January with some user flows => https://www.w3.org/2025/Talks/google-paymentlink-20250130.pdf ) 14:25:23 smcgruer_[EST]: Good question whether it would be useful to address the question of informing the merchant (but in a privacy-protecting way). 14:26:09 Juan_Pablo: This is the first time I hear of a mechanism where the merchant does not get a signal. 14:26:26 (See the issues list for this API => https://github.com/WICG/paymentlink/issues/ ) 14:26:45 smcgruer_[EST]: the asynchronous part is very common in push payment flows 14:27:11 Juan_Pablo: The merchant triggers the QR code so has some awareness. 14:28:35 Albert: I think this describes one of the biggest challenges we see in the 3DS space (where we need to get the user to an app to authenticate) 14:28:50 ...are you thinking about integration to 3DS and sandbox requirement? 14:29:04 q+ comment on that 14:29:12 ack gkok 14:29:37 gustavo: I've asked the EMVCo 3DS WG about this. I think the problem related to iframe 14:29:49 q+ 14:29:55 ack Dan 14:30:08 Dan: Are there events that are subscribable that come with this flow? 14:30:46 smcgruer_[EST]: Not right now, but that's a good idea. It could be interesting to tell the merchant some things with browser fired events. 14:31:06 ...e.g., we can throw and event to the page that "the user has selected a thing" and an event later "the user is back" 14:31:40 ...but what usually happens is that the second you land in an app the first thing the app does is to take a transaction id and talk to the merchant. 14:32:05 q? 14:32:35 Sami: From a 3DS perspective, we do have a sandboxing requirement with some parameters allowed. The 3DS WG _is_ working on this. 14:32:53 ...currently we block calls to apps 14:33:06 ...but we are evaluating this for out-of-band access 14:33:20 ...we came across this during EUDI wallet situation (same use case of same-device) 14:33:29 ack comment 14:33:29 comment, you wanted to comment on that 14:33:56 Sami: It would be could to continue this discussion from that point of view as well. 14:34:57 ...we are looking at this specifically in the auth app from the merchant side, but not the payment context situation 14:35:50 Ian: the fact that it's declarative may make this easier to permit in 3DS 14:36:12 Sami: But if something happens outside of the 3DS request/response flow and outside of iframes, it's not a 3DS issue 14:36:14 q? 14:36:17 ack Gerhard 14:36:48 Gerhard: I am hearing interest in taking this up. Sounds like something we should discuss and pursue 14:37:05 ....I like that it is making the front end easier for the merchant to flow things in 14:37:41 ...the link would be a good way to tie into existing assets we have. 14:37:51 +100 !! :) 14:37:56 ...so linking up with payment handlers is intriguing 14:38:47 ....sounds like the 3DS flow could happen within the payment app 14:38:48 q+ 14:39:05 ...there are some cases where the merchant doesn't know the card, and this could help in those cases. 14:39:57 ...a concern: the merchant needs to pass information to the wallet (e.g., transaction id). I may need to show some information to the user in the merchant page after the payment has happened. 14:40:05 ...e.g., how handle a decline 14:40:19 smcgruer_[EST]: I am a big proponent of the idea of hooking this up to payment handlers. 14:40:40 ...it doesn't work that way today but I'd like to move it in that direction. 14:41:48 ...I agree that when the user returns to the merchant page after payment, I think it would be a big bonus that there's some sort of optional event that's fired (e.g., on the link element) when payment request has finished and here's a bundle of info 14:41:58 ...we'd get that through the payment handler API 14:43:21 Ian: What about SPC? Could be used in a custom tab in a native app, or supported in a web based payment handler. 14:44:30 Ian: Can we do a call for consensus? 14:44:37 smcgruer_[EST]: No timing requirement from the Chrome perspective. 14:44:49 Nick: I would like to wait a bit for more members to rejoin the WG. 14:45:00 ...so we'll probably wait a bit before issuing the CFC. 14:45:15 Topic: Rejoin! 14:45:36 https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/payments/participants/ 14:48:51 Topic: Action review 14:49:22 Ian did his => https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/issues/312 14:49:37 Daniel did his => https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/issues/309 14:50:15 Topic: Upcoming meetings 14:50:22 No meeting: 11 September 14:50:27 Are meeting 25 September 14:50:36 https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/Agenda-20250925 14:50:41 https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/issues/313 14:51:45 Topic: TPAC candidate agenda items 14:51:46 https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/Agenda%E2%80%90TPAC2025 14:56:28 rrsagent, make minutes 14:56:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/28-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 14:56:36 RRSAGENT, set logs public 14:57:02 present+ Ashawny_Rayu 14:59:34 rrsagent, make minutes 14:59:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/28-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 14:59:45 RRSAGENT, set logs public 14:59:48 rrsagent, bye 14:59:48 I see no action items