13:59:59 RRSAgent has joined #w3process 14:00:04 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-irc 14:00:05 zakim, start the meeting 14:00:05 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:00:07 Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group 14:00:18 TallTed has joined #w3process 14:01:24 Ian has joined #w3process 14:01:28 tidoust has joined #w3process 14:03:33 present+ 14:03:59 zakim, who's here? 14:03:59 Present: TallTed 14:04:01 On IRC I see tidoust, Ian, TallTed, RRSAgent, Zakim, brent, github-bot, wendyreid, tink, timeless, astearns, hdv, jyasskin, cwilso, hober, csarven, Ralph, plh, florian, Daniel 14:04:04 present+ Alan_Law 14:04:05 present+ 14:04:06 present+ PLH 14:04:10 present+ 14:04:14 present+ Ian_Jacobs 14:04:17 present+ Tidiest 14:04:23 Topic: Welcome 14:04:30 scribe: Ian 14:04:41 Brent: Today we'll look at open pull requests 14:04:50 https://github.com/w3c/process/pulls 14:05:03 Brent: We'll begin look at triaging open issues 14:05:21 Brent: Let's do some introductions. I was recently elected to the AB and will be chairing this group. 14:05:37 ...I appreciate the W3C process and look forward to shepherding it in this new role 14:06:07 PLH: I am responsible for tech strategy at W3C. I have a love/hate relationship with the process. 14:06:21 ...I'll be co-chairing this group with Brent 14:07:12 TallTed: I have been doing w3c things since 2001. I am particularly interested in the use of language. 14:07:46 Alan: I'm a business owner in the UK; I am interested in how the Web and W3C work; I am new to this. 14:08:07 ...I see lots of problems with the Internet of today and would like to see if I can help out. 14:08:33 ...and hope to meet the people who get the work done. 14:09:26 Ian: I first started to work on the process document 28 yeasr ago. I'm running the community group program. 14:09:33 ... which has its own process 14:10:24 ... I think our working group process should be overalled, to be healthy. it's challenging for new comers. New CG process is 7 pages. 14:11:01 Brent: In the AB I have heard the same sentiment in reformulating the process to simplify. 14:11:01 Dingwei has joined #w3process 14:11:30 tidoust: Have been at W3C for 17 years. I have developed tools to help groups get work done. 14:11:54 ...I am the new W3C Process/Project director at W3C 14:12:18 ...I'll start by learning and observing 14:12:41 Brent: Welcome all! 14:12:53 Topic: Plan for TPAC 14:12:58 Brent: We're not planning to meet as a CG at TPAC 14:13:33 ..however, the AB is planning to attend lots of WG meetings during the week to ask questions about process experiences and frustrations. 14:13:46 ...I anticipate the results of that outreach will be shared here. 14:14:26 Ian: When will the AB reach out? 14:14:35 Brent: We are discussing that at our meeting tomorrow. 14:15:19 Ian: Suggest also going to the Chairs breakfast. 14:15:38 Dingwei has joined #w3process 14:15:59 Ian: Suggest also a breakout session 14:16:03 Brent: Good ideas 14:16:21 Brent: I'll coordinate with François about what to discuss during the chairs breakfast 14:16:47 PLH: I think I'm responsible for organizing the chairs breakfast. 14:17:34 Topic: Open Process PRS 14:17:34 ACTION: PLH to ask Alex to add the Chairs breakfast to the TPAC meeting calendar 14:17:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-minutes.html Ian 14:17:49 https://github.com/w3c/process/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-asc 14:18:24 subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/process/pull/888 14:18:33 Brent: Say "merge", "continue", or "close" 14:19:11 Github: https://github.com/w3c/process/pull/888 14:20:23 PLH: We have a "Needs AB feedback" label 14:21:57 [We review the background of the pull request] 14:22:15 Brent: I'm hearing it's not ready to merge; we need more AB and TAG feedback. 14:22:33 Github: https://github.com/w3c/process/pull/929 14:23:34 Brent: My observation is that there's not yet consensus to address the topic through this pull request. 14:24:21 ...see issue 921 https://github.com/w3c/process/issues/921 14:24:28 -> https://github.com/w3c/process/issues/921 14:24:57 Brent: On that issue I'm not seeing discussion arrive at a point where people are clearly saying "here's what we should do." 14:25:37 PLH: I think this PR is wrong on several grounds. Of the AC wants to nominate someone on the Team to be on the AC, they should be able to do so, and if the AC as a whole wants them in, they should be able to elect them. 14:26:05 ...a second question is whether the Team should be able to nominate someone from the Team, but those nominations are also subject to approval outside the team. 14:26:13 ...so I don't think we need to constrain these choices. 14:26:33 ...also, this has not been a problem ever. We have more important things to fix in the process. 14:28:46 Ian: +1 to addressing the question of balance of power in a process overhaul. Don't need to address it at this time. 14:29:21 Brent: In light of discussion today, I would like to put "Propose to close" and see who argues against this. 14:29:33 ...this conversation will be added to the PR. 14:30:03 RESOLVED: Mark this as proposed to close 14:30:29 Github: https://github.com/w3c/process/pull/928 14:31:19 Brent: This proposal limits people from participating in different governance bodies at the same time. 14:31:59 PLH: As a reminder, this situation has arisen a couple of times. 14:32:54 Brent: This also fits into the broader question of how powers and responsibilities are balanced 14:34:32 Ian: There's active opposition to this pull request. 14:34:54 Brent: I also think "Propose to close" is appropriate and conversation should move back to the AB 14:36:04 Ian: I am hearing that there is support for addressing the concerns that were raised, but in a holistic fashion and that may lead to other pull requests. 14:36:16 Brent: Right, the conversation needs to continue and this PR is not the place for it to continue 14:36:22 RESOLVED: Mark this as proposed to close 14:36:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-minutes.html Ian 14:36:38 Topic: Process Issue Triage 14:36:53 https://www.google.com/url?q=https://github.com/w3c/process/issues?q%3Dis%253Aissue%2520state%253Aopen%2520sort%253Aupdated-asc&sa=D&source=calendar&ust=1756734967720518&usg=AOvVaw1PeroJPcMvLHd56BkN8SAl 14:38:02 Github: https://github.com/w3c/process/issues/521 14:41:49 Brent: The AB would like to know the experiment results, but I don't think that issue needs to be tracked in this issue. 14:42:58 IJ: Closing it here seems fine; with a pointer to wherever it will be tracked 14:43:03 Brent: We have the AB public issue tracker. 14:43:45 ACTION: Brent to open an issue in the AB-public repo for the transfer of the approval voting issue out of the process repo 14:44:34 RESOLVED: Close issue 521 after the AB-public repo issue has been created and the notes from this meeting appear in the process repo 14:44:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-minutes.html Ian 14:44:53 Github: https://github.com/w3c/process/issues/639 14:45:47 q+ 14:45:55 ack Ian 14:47:22 q+ 14:48:46 Ian: I think the AB should review this whole mechanism before addressing an issue that is an abstract question. 14:49:09 Brent: That's a good question, but the issue is saying "Since they do exist...let's examine this topic" 14:49:18 ack plh 14:50:13 PLH: We ended up simplifying the submission process. 14:51:10 PLH: It's hard to remember the rationale for the appeal 14:51:34 ...I'd be in favor of allowing others from the AC to appeal 14:51:43 Brent: I am hearing that we should not close this issue. 14:51:53 RESOLVED: Remove the "propose to close" issue 14:52:24 Github: https://github.com/w3c/process/issues/402 14:54:17 PLH: It seems broken to me that the only way to know whether a CR is going to Rec or not, you likely have to look at the group charter. 14:55:08 Brent: I am hearing there might be some changes to the process to help clarify the end state. 14:57:35 Ian: How big a part of the AB conversation is the "maturity level communication" topic? 14:57:35 Brent: Too soon to tell. 14:58:49 https://whatwg.org/stages 14:59:06 https://tc39.es/process-document/ 15:00:40 Ian: Suggest going big here and talking to other orgs to see what they are doing as well as aligning with them. 15:00:53 Brent: I think that's where the AB is at. 15:01:02 RRSAGENT, make minutes 15:01:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-minutes.html Ian 15:01:11 RRSAGENT, set logs public 15:01:21 Topic: Editor role 15:01:48 Brent: I will try to get more people from the AB to this CG, and we'll need a new co-editor in light of Elika's moving on. 15:01:59 ...Florian will remain a co-editor 15:02:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-minutes.html Ian 15:02:34 zakim, who is here? 15:02:36 Present: TallTed, Alan_Law, plh, brent, Ian_Jacobs, Tidiest 15:02:36 On IRC I see tidoust, Ian, TallTed, RRSAgent, Zakim, brent, github-bot, wendyreid, tink, timeless, astearns, hdv, jyasskin, cwilso, hober, csarven, Ralph, plh, florian, Daniel 15:03:43 zakim, end the meeting 15:03:43 As of this point the attendees have been TallTed, Alan_Law, plh, brent, Ian_Jacobs, Tidiest 15:03:46 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v1 15:03:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-minutes.html Zakim 15:03:55 I am happy to have been of service, brent; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:03:55 Zakim has left #w3process 15:04:08 rssagent, bye 16:54:41 brent has joined #w3process 18:08:28 rrsagent, bye 18:08:28 I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-actions.rdf : 18:08:28 ACTION: PLH to ask Alex to add the Chairs breakfast to the TPAC meeting calendar [1] 18:08:28 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-irc#T14-17-34-1 18:08:28 ACTION: Brent to open an issue in the AB-public repo for the transfer of the approval voting issue out of the process repo [2] 18:08:28 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-w3process-irc#T14-43-45