14:57:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
14:57:52 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-pointerevents-irc
15:01:49 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
15:02:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:02:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/66591f6b-6694-4f90-b23d-bf8f1b9dda8a/20250827T110000/
15:02:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
15:02:22 <smaug> present+
15:02:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
15:02:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:02:44 <flackr> present+
15:02:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Web Platform Tests https://wpt.live/pointerevents/ / https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=experimental&label=master&aligned
15:03:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ Patrick_H_Lauke
15:03:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ gastonr
15:03:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:03:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:04:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: We discussed last time, Gaston you were going to look over the WPT harness problems. did you have time?
15:05:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> gaston: i looked over the various failing tests. seems there's a lot of assertions throwing in firefox due to lack of pen support in the harness. also a lot of timeouts in safari, so tests are hanging up. there were a few tests failing with assertions throwing rather than failing. in chromium, there was a directory for pointerlock tests, and we have an exception with the browser because the root of the document was not va[CUT]
15:05:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ointerlock
15:06:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:06:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: think there was proposal for interop to improve touch event testing. but we have overall pointer and mouse interop issues, but we've not been looking at all those other issues for touch and pen
15:07:16 <gastonr> gastonr has joined #pointerevents
15:07:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: wonder if we should have that as interop 2026? i think touch is more important than pen
15:08:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: at least TPAC there were rumours about improve touch testing. don't know more
15:08:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> gaston: if you want, i can send writeup to the irc
15:10:52 <gastonr> - In Firefox, pen events are not supported: error: Action action_sequence failed: Error: Unimplemented pointerMove for pointerType pen (https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=firefox%3Aerror)
15:10:52 <gastonr> - A lot of the tests that time out in Firefox and Safari have either touch-action:none or pointer-events: none. It seems like they aren't handling that case well.
15:10:52 <gastonr> - A lot of the Safari ERROR results are due to a crash in the python script with webdriver.error.MoveTargetOutOfBoundsException: move target out of bounds (500) (https://pastebin.com/CeEhKDeK) (most of the pointerevent_touch-action-xyz tests do this) safari:error wpt.fyi query
15:10:52 <gastonr> (https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=safari%3Aerror)
15:10:53 <gastonr> - For safari, pointerevent_attributes.html?touch throws an error because of the unhandled promise of a rejected assert_equals
15:10:53 <gastonr> - For Safari, pointerevent_pointerrawupdate_changes_pointer_capture.https.html and pointerevent_capture_mouse_and_release_and_capture_again.html throw the exception: JavaScript exception occured: window.__wptrunner_process_next_event is not a function.. I think it's interesting that the other browsers don't have that issue, but it seems that for
15:10:53 <gastonr> one pointerevent test in chromium we did see this problem: pointerevent_pointerleave_after_pointercancel_touch-expected.txt
15:10:54 <gastonr> -In Chromium, pointerlock/ tests fail because the browser throws the exception: "The root document of this element is not valid for pointer lock" (https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents/pointerlock?label=master&label=experimental&aligned)
15:11:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: if we know what the shortcomings are, is there a path forward for fixes to WPT? is it down to us to fix, or is there somebody we need to harrangue?
15:11:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: i think we agree that touch is more important than pen, and there seem to be efforts to fix these. once touch is sorted, we should be able to get to pen ones
15:12:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: out of the list that gaston posted, we can ignore pen support for now. touch event stuff seem like they should be working, so we should give those tests some attention
15:13:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so should we do action to look at this?
15:13:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: interop 2026 opening proposals soon, should submit a proposal for this
15:14:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: is Firefox going to propose it?
15:14:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: not discussed yet, but think Masayuki proposed for last time?
15:15:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Olli to raise possibility of touch test fixes for interop 2026 from Mozilla side
15:18:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Recharter https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/515
15:24:08 <smaug> Gecko has internal https://searchfox.org/firefox-main/source/dom/webidl/SimpleGestureEvent.webidl
15:27:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [the group discusses idea of potentially adding gesture handling to IN SCOPE for the group's charter]
15:27:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Philippe: are there any existing APIs that you would want to point to and say "this is what we want to standardise?"
15:28:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we have internal gesture recognisers in browser code, but no existing API that's already there
15:28:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Philippe: want to avoid having to start from scratch, as otherwise this needs to be incubated separate first
15:28:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: the old API in webkit https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/GestureEvent
15:29:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: hammer.js https://hammerjs.github.io/
15:34:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: not married to any particular syntax/approach - whether one single event (which then has an attribute for the type of gesture), or separate events for each gesture like hammer
15:34:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: would this then all be in our single pointer events spec, or would it be in a separate spec? and then we have UI events still without an editor...
15:36:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: good question here... Philippe, would we as a group be able to separate out the gesture stuff in a separate document, or are we only chartered to work on one spec document?
15:38:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Philippe: we could put it in charter as a separate document, but if we want to change our mind later we can integrate it
15:39:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to review/add any more info to the Recharter https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/515 issue before Philippe takes it forward
15:39:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to make PR against charter for #515
15:40:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: any interesting issues/PRs to discuss?
15:40:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: I have one interop 2025 test
15:40:44 <mustaq> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/53685
15:41:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: tried to tweak before, until i realised Firefox failed. then tweaked again, and it should work
15:44:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [mustaq and olli talk over the PR]
15:47:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: if there's nothing else, thank you all as ever. We'll readjurn in two weeks' time
15:47:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, make logs world-visible
15:47:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:47:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:48:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:48:15 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:48:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Olli to raise possibility of touch test fixes for interop 2026 from Mozilla side [1]
15:48:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-pointerevents-irc#T15-15-07
15:48:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to review/add any more info to the Recharter https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/515 issue before Philippe takes it forward [2]
15:48:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-pointerevents-irc#T15-39-37
15:48:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to make PR against charter for #515 [3]
15:48:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-pointerevents-irc#T15-39-59