13:57:34 RRSAgent has joined #act-r 13:57:38 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/08/21-act-r-irc 13:57:38 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:57:39 Meeting: ACT Rules Community Group Teleconference 13:58:10 agenda+ ACT stand-up 13:58:10 agenda+ Passed Example 3 in Headers attribute specified on a cell refers to cells in the same table element [a25f45] should be edited/removed (https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2233) 13:58:10 agenda+ ARIA ID Reference Error Processing - Requires ACT review #2337 (https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2337) 13:58:12 agenda+ [NEW RULE] - ARIA required accessible names - aria-required-accessible-name-gp8n89 (https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2190) 14:01:59 sashanichols has joined #act-r 14:02:06 present+ 14:05:36 present+ 14:05:37 giacomo-petri has joined #act-r 14:05:40 present+ 14:05:47 Wilco has joined #act-r 14:06:20 Kathy has joined #act-r 14:06:25 present+ 14:06:30 present+ 14:06:34 zakim, take up next item 14:06:34 agendum 1 -- ACT stand-up -- taken up [from CarlosD] 14:07:23 Wilco: resolved comments on rule redesign page, push 1 change 14:07:42 ... splitting ARIA rules 14:08:01 Giacomo: reviewed PRs, closed some issues 14:08:59 Kathy: reviewed PRs, 1.1 Rules Format approved 14:09:12 Wilco: request for implementations of 1.1 needed 14:09:40 Sasha: nothing to report 14:09:48 Carlos: nothing to report 14:10:11 Wilco: no further Task Force update 14:10:16 zakim, take up next 14:10:16 agendum 2 -- Passed Example 3 in Headers attribute specified on a cell refers to cells in the same table element [a25f45] should be edited/removed 14:10:18 ... (https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2233) -- taken up [from CarlosD] 14:11:12 Carlos: example fails ARIA and HTML while passing rule 14:11:28 Giacomo: it's invalid HTML 14:11:51 ... cannot reference ID of 14:12:17 Wilco: we have examples of pass WCAG but not valid in other specs 14:12:58 ... want to highlight WCAG can pass even if they don't meet ARIA or HTML specs 14:14:31 Giacomo: having the headers or not is exactly the same 14:16:48 Wilco: can we change example? to 4 col table. odd cols contain headers and even cols contain the data 14:17:59 ... headers are not in the same col as data 14:18:51 ... used to be valid HTML4, but invalid HTML5 14:19:32 ... used to work, might still work 14:20:04 Sasha: have had problem that headers referencing ID doesn't work 14:20:21 Wilco: VoiceOver doesn't support 14:21:15 Carlos: no accessibility support note in rule currently 14:23:08 Wilco: would it fail if headers attributes are different from scope 14:23:29 Carlos: headers are there for when scope wouldn't work 14:23:40 Wilco: headers over scope 14:25:01 Giacomo: confirm VoiceOver doesn't support headers 14:25:20 Wilco: it didn't in the past 14:26:26 Giacomo: I can test 14:28:23 ... invalid HTML in passed examples aren't a strong solution 14:29:20 Wilco: rules include edge cases to be tested consistently 14:30:52 there are 8.3k code instances on github of
    Giacomo: major browsers are trying to create algorithm inconsistently 14:31:37 zakim, take up next 14:31:37 agendum 3 -- ARIA ID Reference Error Processing - Requires ACT review #2337 (https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2337) -- taken up [from CarlosD] 14:32:00 Carlos: discussed in July 14:32:28 ... update from ARIA WG 14:34:30 Giacomo: aria controls removed from scroll bar so rule should be deprecated 14:34:39 Wilco: agree to deprecate 14:36:05 Carlos: deprecate rule 14:36:13 zakim, take up next 14:36:13 agendum 4 -- [NEW RULE] - ARIA required accessible names - aria-required-accessible-name-gp8n89 (https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2190) -- taken up [from 14:36:16 ... CarlosD] 14:37:37 Carlos: discussed that it overlaps existing rules 14:39:18 Giacomo: some roles do not require accname in editor draft of ARIA spec 14:40:54 ... rule scope can group certain roles. rule title is misleading 14:41:15 Wilco: rule will have a lot of secondary requirements because of broad scope 14:42:26 q+ 14:42:41 ... approach would allow failing of SCs incorrectly 14:43:07 giacomo: remove sec reqs for this rule 14:43:19 Wilco: would result in inconsistent implementations 14:44:07 giacomo: no WCAG in this ARIA rule 14:46:38 Wilco: broad scope overlaps many rules 14:47:30 Giacomo: try to refine rule 14:50:04 Carlos: split rule by secondary reqs 14:52:26 .. can have multiple roles in one rule 14:53:32 ack g 14:55:07 Giacomo: will make changes 14:55:37 scribe+ 14:58:40 Wilco: identifying what roles need names and what do not, and then bringing those to the ARIA WG would be helpful 15:00:14 I need to drop, bye! 15:02:48 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:02:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/21-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 15:03:43 scribe+ Kathy 15:03:45 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:03:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/21-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 15:04:18 RRSAgent, draft minutes v1 15:04:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/21-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 15:05:30 scribe+ CarlosD 15:05:33 RRSAgent, draft minutes v1 15:05:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/21-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD 15:06:06 zakim, end meeting 15:06:06 As of this point the attendees have been CarlosD, sashanichols, giacomo-petri, Kathy, Wilco 15:06:08 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v1 15:06:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/21-act-r-minutes.html Zakim 15:06:16 I am happy to have been of service, CarlosD; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:06:16 Zakim has left #act-r 15:07:29 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:07:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/21-act-r-minutes.html CarlosD