14:14:56 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 14:15:01 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-irc 14:15:04 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1 14:15:16 scribenick: jkrhb 14:15:47 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Jan_Romann, Daniel_Peintner, Josh_Thomas, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima 14:15:55 rrsagent, make log public 14:15:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:16:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:16:09 scribenick: jkrhb 14:16:17 topic: Agenda 14:16:30 chair: Ege, Koster 14:16:32 ek: Starting a bit late after the plugfest, have a full agenda for the two days 14:16:42 ... picked the scribe, no guests today 14:16:55 ... will look at the schedule and the content type PR 14:17:08 ... also have binding template repo repo etc. 14:17:08 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#August_20%2C_21_2025 14:17:11 regrets+ Cristiano 14:17:15 rrsagent, draft minute 14:17:15 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minute', kaz. Try /msg RRSAgent help 14:17:17 ... if no time for that today, will postpone to tomorrow 14:17:24 topic: Minutes Review 14:17:26 s/rrsagent, draft minute// 14:17:35 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/08/06-wot-td-minutes.html Aug-6 14:17:46 ek: As always, will go through the minutes slowly, let me know if you spot anything that should be changed 14:17:49 q? 14:17:58 ... any remarks for August 6? 14:18:11 ... Seeing no one in the queue, propose to accept the minutes 14:18:22 Minutes for the 7th are approved 14:18:31 ek: Will do the same for the minutes for the 7th 14:18:37 q? 14:18:39 ... any remarks? 14:18:55 ... seeing no remarks, minutes are approved 14:19:07 s/Minutes for the 7th are approved/Minutes for the 6th are approved 14:19:16 topic: Schedule 14:19:42 ek: This is just a reminder that we are doing a document freeze of TD and Binding Registry next week (28th) 14:19:56 ... so if you want to add stuff, you should start a PR before that 14:20:19 i|This is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/wg-schedule.md WG Schedule 14:20:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:20:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:20:37 ... once we freeze the document next week, we will make a group call for consensus in the main call to move to First Public Working Draft 14:21:00 ... the same process applies to the Bindings Registry document 14:21:13 ... the documents are the deliverables for this taskforce 14:21:26 ... any remarks regarding the schedule until Sseptember? 14:21:35 ... seeing none 14:22:13 ek: Will reach out to people close to the implementations via the CG after the publication of the first public working draft 14:22:30 ... not limited to them, let me know if you know other people that should be involved 14:22:43 dape has joined #wot-td 14:23:05 ek: I will now share the schedule for what we agreed on for the two documents 14:23:19 ... (shows PR 2112 in the TD repo) 14:23:38 ... we have a couple of ToDos/linked issues in the PR 14:24:07 ... so far there has not been any new activity here 14:24:22 s/ PR 2112/issue 2112/ 14:24:35 ek: There is a similar issue in the Bindings Registry repo 14:24:39 q+ 14:24:53 ... (shows issue 12 in the wot-bindings-registry repo) 14:25:04 ... there has been good progress here 14:25:14 ... @@@ 14:25:49 kaz: There was the question about the modification of submitted registry entries, right? 14:26:20 ek: The whole wording is that we have a running registry when people are submitting bindings 14:26:34 ... but we do not have the registry running yet. I will create an issue for that 14:27:07 kaz: The question is then how to deal with expected registry entries before the registry document is finalized. 14:27:24 ek: (creates an issue) 14:27:57 s/The question is then how/There are several related questions here, and the question you're mentioning now is how/ 14:28:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:28:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:28:57 ... (mentions that the wording in the process and document our registry process assume a running registry and that the topic should be discussed with PLH) 14:30:28 kaz: A related question is whether we can collect entries before becoming a W3C registry. My assumption was that this is possible. But that depends on the procedure in the document. We should clarify that and how to update the registry 14:31:04 ek: For me, the main question is what happens before we have a registry at all and what happens if we change the @@@ in the running registry 14:31:22 https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-profile-registry/#Registration_Entry_Requirements_and_Update_Process 14:31:40 ... (shows the table from the TTML profile registry document) 14:32:10 ... they won't remove all the entries and ask people to resubmit, right? This is something that is not clear to me yet 14:32:36 ... will assign the issue to you, Kaz, for talking to PLH, I can also join the call 14:33:35 kaz: As I mentioned, you have two main questions: 1. How to deal with submissions before the document becomes a W3C Registry Document. 2. The procedure for the registration and updates 14:33:47 ... we can manage this information via GitHub 14:34:14 ek: But even on GitHub, we will need to create some kind of issue template 14:34:24 ... we will continue this discussion with the process people 14:34:38 .... (assigns the fpr-goals label to the issue) 14:36:02 ek: We cannot use two mechanisms for the draft status and the final document, we need to agree on a single mechanism 14:36:11 topic: PRs 14:36:25 subtopic: PR 2081 14:36:37 ek: To bring people up to speed after the TD break 14:36:51 q+ 14:37:52 kaz: Since everything is managed via GitHub, we @@@. We can make another proposal then 14:38:25 ... there is no defined mechanism yet, we can refer to some of the existing mechanisms and then apply them as needed 14:38:50 q+ 14:38:59 q+ 14:39:15 ek: What are the opinions in the group then? Should we define a process to accept entries before the registry becomes an official W3C Registry 14:39:21 i|since every|topic: Registry - revisited @@@| 14:39:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:39:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:39:45 q? 14:39:47 ack k 14:39:49 q+ 14:40:43 s/we @@@/we follow the precedence/ 14:40:45 jr: I would be in favor, also to identify potential issues as early as possible. Would it be possible to still make changes before having the W3C registry though? I assume so? 14:41:58 ek: I also think that accepting submissions before the finalization makes sense, also to avoid that the registry format changes later and we need to ask people to provide additional information 14:42:25 ... so we would need to define a temporary mechanism, not making any guarantees, reserving the right to make changes 14:42:35 ... but that might not make that good of an impression 14:42:47 ... or we restrict ourselves to not make any changes 14:43:45 dp: I think we definitely have some pilots that check out whether the registry works as we expect it to work. But we should not accept too many. If we have people from the outside, we need to make clear that changes are still possible and should limit the number of external submissions 14:44:08 q? 14:44:10 ack j 14:44:12 ack d 14:44:17 ... otherwise we would have a lot of work changing the entries. But we definitely need a temporary registry, otherwise we will not get any feedback 14:44:36 ek: (starts summarizing the discussion) 14:45:15 ... so this should be mentioned in the registry definition in a note before transitioning 14:46:40 ... we could disallow people from letting their bindings transition to the final state to indicate that the registry is temporary 14:47:08 kaz: Agree with Daniel on the pilot approach 14:47:25 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/aac-registry/#symbol-registry AAC Symbol Registry 14:47:30 ... also have existing documents (CoAP, HTML, ...), so we can start with them 14:47:45 ... can deal with external submissions, for instance by ECHONET, later 14:48:09 ... we also need to think how to manage the data 14:48:22 ek: We already agreed that we will manage the submissions with issues 14:48:34 q? 14:48:37 q- 14:48:38 kaz: I think the management aspect is more important here 14:48:45 s/issues/GitHub Issues/ 14:49:07 s/I think the management aspect is more important here/Right, and I think the management aspect is more important here./ 14:49:25 s/the management/that kind of management/ 14:49:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:49:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:49:39 ek: (amends his comment) 14:49:48 ... any other opinions? 14:50:00 ... Will also talk to Sebastian about this 14:50:07 i|Since every|topic: Registry - revisited @@@| 14:50:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:50:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:50:21 ... will probably not be happy that this will delay the OPC-UA submission 14:50:36 .... (goes through his summary once again) 14:51:07 ... if this is fine, then I think we do not need to talk to PLH in this case 14:51:21 kaz: Of course, if needed, we can talk to PLH at some point 14:51:33 ek: I think the process document needs to be improved 14:51:47 kaz: I suggest you join the process document group 14:51:59 s/document group/CG :)/ 14:52:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:52:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:52:16 topic: PRs 14:52:24 subtopic: PR 2081 14:52:55 ek: There are some changes to the PR needed, but I think we have a solution now 14:53:06 i|There|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2081 TD PR 2081 - Make contentType optional in ExpectedResponse and AdditionalExpectedResponse classes| 14:53:55 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:53:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:54:17 ... Jan added the assertion that stated that if there is a content type at the form level, this a implies that there is a content type at the response level. But we cannot specify that there is not going to be a response then 14:54:28 ... so Jan's suggestion was to set response to null 14:54:48 ... another suggestion was to set the content type to null 14:55:33 ... Ben Francis' suggestion was to use an empty object for the response to indicate that there is no body in the response 14:56:05 ... Ben's solution was positively received by Jan and me 14:56:11 +1 14:56:30 ... so the way forward would be to take over this solution 14:56:39 ... (no objects from the group) 14:56:49 s/objects/objections/ 14:58:19 ... could also apply a similar concept to input and output data as well, but that can be another PR 14:58:47 subtopic: Binding Templates PR 434 14:58:56 ek: As we are short on time, but I wanted to quick overview 14:59:07 ... will discuss/merge them tomorrow 14:59:24 i|As we|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/434 Binding PR 434 - Retiring the main document| 14:59:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:59:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:59:37 ... this one is about retiring the main bindings document, should be ready to merge tomorrow 15:00:15 ... I think we will also need to update the WG schedule, will make PR for that 15:00:19 [adjourned] 15:00:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:00:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:57:49 kaz has joined #wot-td 17:13:18 Zakim has left #wot-td