18:04:28 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:04:33 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/08/12-aria-apg-irc 18:04:33 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:04:34 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 18:04:40 present+ jugglinmike 18:04:44 scribe+ jugglinmike 18:04:49 present+ Jem 18:04:52 present+ Adam_Page 18:04:54 present+ howard-e 18:04:58 present+ jongund 18:05:04 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-12%2C-2025-Agenda 18:05:47 topic: Setup and Review Agenda 18:05:54 Jem: Next meeting: August 19 18:05:57 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:06:00 Jem: Any requests for change to agenda? 18:06:21 howard-e: I might. I shared an issue about the toolbar 18:06:35 present+ Matt_King 18:06:46 Matt_King: I saw that. We can add it to the agenda if you like 18:07:04 howard-e: Sure. I don't have anything to add beyond the issue I filed, but I can share context 18:07:22 present+ siri 18:07:52 Topic: Publication planning 18:08:21 Matt_King: We haven't set a date, yet, but we do have a few things in the milestone which are actually done 18:08:23 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/39 18:08:57 Matt_King: I've merged two that are in there. One is the editor menubar fix; the other is the editorial fix for JavaScript casing 18:09:53 Matt_King: Looking at some of the stuff that we have in the works... I wonder if, now that Adam_Page has experience from the disclosure card, if he has a sense about whether we can wrap it up before Labor Day 18:10:22 Adam_Page: I think so. I did some more work this past week. I can share more when we reach this item in today's agenda 18:11:09 Matt_King: Maybe we would shoot for September 3rd as a publication date. That's right after Labor Day. That could be a pretty reasonable target. It would give us some time to land the spin button and maybe reach some other low-hanging fruit 18:11:24 Matt_King: Potentially the changes to skipTo.js, as well--that's also on the agenda 18:11:30 howard-e: September 3rd works for me 18:11:39 Matt_King: Alright, I'll update the milestone then 18:12:00 Adam_Page: I'll be out of town for the Labor Day weekend, but that shouldn't impact my work 18:12:19 Jem: Don't feel too much pressure, Adam_Page. We'll accommodate your schedule! 18:13:05 Topic: GitHub spam 18:13:33 Matt_King: We've accrued many frivolous bug reports in the issue tracker 18:14:01 Matt_King: When this has happened in the past, I have manually closed the issues. I've locked the issues and marked them as spam 18:14:30 Matt_King: There are maybe over 20 issues this time around. I didn't have the bandwidth to address it 18:14:57 Matt_King: It looks like the flow of frivolous issues from this account has stopped 18:15:23 Jem: I can report them using GitHub's user interface 18:16:33 Topic: Issue 3293: Adding "Read This First" link to the top of each pattern page 18:16:48 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3320 18:17:09 Matt_King: Everything looks good, here. We have all the necessary reviews, so thanks to everyone for that 18:17:23 Matt_King: This work is tricky to merge, though, because it requires coordination between two repositories 18:18:01 howard-e: This patch can land before the corresponding pull request to the "build" repository. Still, I would advise not to merge this until that review is complete 18:18:16 Matt_King: When the review is complete there, can you comment on this issue and say that it's safe to merge? 18:18:18 howard-e: Sure 18:18:39 Matt_King: Great. I think this is really good. I think it's a very positive change. 18:18:58 Topic: PR 3213: Update SkipTo feature to version 5.8 18:19:05 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3213 18:19:29 Matt_King: Ari tested this on an iPhone and left a comment saying that she couldn't get it to work 18:19:35 Matt_King: I think she couldn't get the menu to open 18:19:55 jongund: If you don't have a keyboard, you can't open the menu 18:20:10 Matt_King: But if you're using a screen reader, you will still observe it 18:20:20 jongund: I have an iPhone, so I can test it out 18:20:39 Jem: She's asking how she performs an action equivalent to "tab" on mobile 18:20:51 jongund: Well, we don't have a "click" event on the menu button 18:21:12 jongund: What does VoiceOver do with hidden content? If something is "display: none", is it considered inert? 18:21:24 Matt_King: This isn't "display: none", this is off-screen 18:21:47 Adam_Page: I just did a very quick test on my iPhone, and I was able to navigate backwards to the skipTo menu 18:21:58 Adam_Page: It looks like it's working to me, so I am curious to hear more from Ari 18:22:06 Adam_Page: I was doing this on the production APG site 18:22:22 Matt_King: The question is whether it works on this new version, from the preview 18:22:29 Adam_Page: I can check that 18:22:34 Jem: I'll assign it to you, Adam_Page 18:23:19 Adam_Page: I'll check the deploy preview. If it still seems to be working to me, then I'll double-check with Ari and make sure I understand what she is expecting 18:23:40 Matt_King: Thank you! We have time here because we're planning to deploy on September 3 18:24:14 Matt_King has joined #aria-apg 18:26:50 Jem: the production APG site is currently using version 5.3.2 of skipTo.js 18:27:00 Topic: PR 3328: Add Quantity Spin Button 18:27:05 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3328 18:27:34 Adam_Page: After we chatted about this last week, I restored the "date picker" example and put a deprecation warning on it (and ensured that the depcration warning appears on the index page) 18:28:07 https://deploy-preview-424--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/patterns/spinbutton/examples/quantity-spinbutton/#example 18:28:11 Adam_Page: I also wrote a whole bunch of tests. I would be very grateful for a review from someone who knows what they are doing because I haven't written many of this kind of Selenium test 18:28:48 Matt_King: Did you write tests on roles and states and properties? 18:28:52 Adam_Page: Yes 18:28:59 jongund: I can review the tests 18:29:03 Adam_Page: Awesome, thank you! 18:29:18 howard-e: I can review, as well 18:29:40 Adam_Page: What about content? Should I do an editorial review? 18:30:07 Adam_Page: Yes, please. I haven't made any changes to copy since last week, but my initial push included a lot of copy 18:30:21 Matt_King: Do you want to take it out of the "draft" state? 18:30:25 Adam_Page: Sure 18:30:46 Jem: How do I get the focus on the minus and plus? 18:30:49 Adam_Page: You don't 18:31:19 Adam_Page: It's because the inputs themselves are focusable. A sighted user would bring focus to the inputs and know that they could either type numbers or use their arrow keys 18:31:40 Adam_Page: The minus and plus buttons are present more for mouse users and especially for touch users 18:33:37 jongund: That's consistent with the previous example 18:33:56 Matt_King: Doesn't the spec say something about not focusing the plus and minus buttons? 18:35:37 Adam_Page: It does! I can't remember if it's phrased as "authors MUST" or "authors SHOULD" 18:36:22 Topic: Failing toolbar test 18:36:29 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3331 18:36:50 howard-e: Toward the end of last week, I noticed a lot of patches were failing the automated tests 18:37:28 howard-e: I used a toolbar example as a test 18:37:44 howard-e: It seems like, in the test now, for whatever reason, it isn't picking up when items have been checked 18:37:58 howard-e: At first, I couldn't reproduce it locally--only on GitHub Actions 18:38:18 howard-e: But recently (as of this week), I have been able to reproduce it on my own 18:38:30 howard-e: I can't think of anything that would cause this 18:38:40 Matt_King: I didn't notice it failing on any of the pull requests that I just merged... 18:38:52 howard-e: Those were submitted prior to whenever this failure started 18:39:06 Matt_King: So it's a failure that's looking for the "aria-checked" state on a menu item? 18:39:09 howard-e: That's right 18:39:15 Adam_Page: Could it be a WebDriver update? 18:39:34 howard-e: That was my thought. There was an update in this time span, but nothing looked suspicious 18:40:12 howard-e: It looks like a timing issue. I'm especially interested to learn why this started now, in the absence of any change in our project 18:40:41 howard-e: The continuous integration environment has a lot of dependencies. It may be caused by an updated dependency there 18:40:59 Matt_King: We always have the nuclear option of disabling a test. I hate doing that 18:41:05 Jem: Please, no! 18:41:58 Matt_King: if you have time to look into this during this week, howard-e, that would be great--especially with the pull requests we're expecting 18:42:00 howard-e: Sure thing 18:42:32 Jem: The error message says "timeout", right? It doesn't successfully open the menu 18:42:34 howard-e: That's right 18:43:30 zakim, end the meeting 18:43:30 As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, Jem, Adam_Page, howard-e, jongund, Matt_King, siri 18:43:33 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 18:43:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/08/12-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 18:43:41 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 18:43:41 Zakim has left #aria-apg 18:53:57 RRSAgent, leave 18:53:57 I see no action items